Pokemon Umbral Theatre 17: Happy Year's End Gratitude!

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

This was back when it also cure status conditions and debuffs. The one you see up there is modified.

Remove the bit about buffs and it's okay.

Originally Posted by Menarker

I figured the fact that Renny needs to pay the cost before anyone else can use it went without saying.

Remove the bit about the stat boost.

Seriously, it feels like you're trying to go all over the place with these techniques.

Originally Posted by Menarker

So ultimately Renny's net gain is one extra armor since one of the new default armor replaced Normal. 2 of them (psychic and fighting) set in stone and the other four he can move around as he wish. No actual immunity like before.

Two free armors and making normal interchangeable giving you basically an extra one just seems excessive.

I think you should pick one.

Originally Posted by Menarker

The reason for this is simple. When a pokebrid or slayer have their rage boosted by 1.5x, their rage generation which is normally 10 becomes 15, which is still a multiple of 5, which is how AB does it.

In the case of pokemons however, trying to give them 1.5x rage generation turns their 5 rage into 7.5 rage. Dealing with decimals are a pain in the ass. If we rounded the 7.5 up to 8 though, we'd have a similiar problem. Thus my rounding so that every 2 attacks is worth the same as one normal slayer attack instead of dealing with weird numbers like 9. It's marginally benifical and mainly for book-keeping purpose.

Meh. It's 14 + 14. We're talking simple math. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't give AB any trouble at all, or otherwise impair him from doing other stuff, to keep up.

Besides, everyone ELSE is doing it straight 7 and it WILL confuse him if he has to fudge around with you.

Just taking a page from your book a bit. You have an ability that reduces the cost of everything you do by 5. I made a more specific one that is more potent. 15 reduction that only works for accessories. Not for divide/focus, not for signature techs, not for paradigm shift. [/QUOTE]

Mine was balanced with respect to my other upgrades.

The idea is fine itself, but 15 is too low.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Accessories/rage generation is basically the replacement concept around replacing RDPA. Before I would have had three turns worth of heavily increased stats, several powerful attacks/armors and an overdrive (which as you noticed was pretty much focused on gaining rage suddenly and spamming techniques). The extra power comes from the accessories. And it is only one extra accessory more than slayers normally get.

Sigh.

I'm still not for this, but I'll wait for Gem's opinion.

Originally Posted by Menarker

And in case anyone has not noticed (and since I forgot to mention it before), what do you guys think about my minor addition to ICT (The one about the option of adding False Swipe to any of my ICT attacks)? I figured it would be flavorful due to Renny's generally merciful nature and he doesn't have any techniques of his own which could take advantage of it.

Myeeeehhhh.

Not particularly big, but again it feels like you're trying to go all over the place.

By the way, I forgot to mention before: No Black and White abilities.

Anyway now I'm worried I'm nerfing you too much. Gem, thoughts?

EDIT: How the hell did I not notice that ICT gives you free Focus?

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Lola Tech: Remove the bit about buffs and it's okay.

Waiting for Gem, but I might be willing to consider that.

Remove the bit about the stat boost.

Seriously, it feels like you're trying to go all over the place with these techniques.

But then Renny gets almost no advantage at all from this technique since he has his own pokemons and he would be shock trooper eventually. Also, the signature techniques and love techs are technically seperate from the upgrades since everyone is pretty much entitled to them. Going all over the place is perfectly fine with techs. I just posted them here so as not to be abusively combinng them with any of my upgrades.

At most I'd be willing to consider boosting the cost for Renny, just like how it cost more for Renny to do Serene Blessing than it does for his allies. It's basically a modified CC&C without giving allies an extra attack but giving stat boosts instead.

Two free armors and making normal interchangeable giving you basically an extra one just seems excessive.

I think you should pick one.

This one is basically where I disagree with you the most. Would like to hear from Gem. In addition to not having immunity to a type, psychic armor and fighting armor would not give all the bonuses that the others would. 1 extra armor total does not seem like a very excessive addition.

Unless you would allow me to put two STAB bonuses if I wore the psychic or fighting armor. One for being the pokebrid in question and another for wearing the armor. Heavily doubt that though.

Meh. It's 14 + 14. We're talking simple math. I'm pretty sure it shouldn't give AB any trouble at all, or otherwise impair him from doing other stuff, to keep up.

Besides, everyone ELSE is doing it straight 7 and it WILL confuse him if he has to fudge around with you.

Actually, I believe the rounding up should apply to all pokemon trainers including you and Charlotte. I would have no objection whatsoever if you and Charlotte got that added to your upgrade for pokemons having 1.5 rage. Basically, it would be the same as all the other trainers with 1.5x rage generation for their pokemons. The rage generation of 1.5 is supposed to be mean "an extra half". Thus attacking twice should yield the exact result as attacking twice with 2.0x. (10 rage total)

Mine was balanced with respect to my other upgrades.

The idea is fine itself, but 15 is too low.

I'd also disagree with you on this.

The most I would possibly consider is 20. But I still feel very iffy about that.

Myeeeehhhh.

Not particularly big, but again it feels like you're trying to go all over the place.

This one is a small thing but I feel would add quite a bit of flavor to Renny. Especially if we're fighting foes who may be more or less sympathic.

By the way, I forgot to mention before: No Black and White abilities.

Are you talking about my replacement moves for when we enter the sequel? Because I was told before that I can retcon ICT for those respective moves when the sequel actually came.

If you're talking about Swampert Veteran upgrade and the abilities which I'm hoping to discuss about, I'm basically making a "custom ability" that is legit in the game that fits in theme with Swampert. It would still be "custom" even when the sequel comes because Swampert normally can't have those abilities. Teslahound and Adamatitar has customized abilities too. Mine is actually exactly the same as the game rules itself. Kinda don't want to have to wait until the sequel before I can retcon to one of those abilities.

I'm already waiting until the sequel before I can retcon to Gallade's other ability, Righteous Heart.

How the hell did I not notice that ICT gives you free Focus?

There is no extra power unlike a real Focus. It's just so that I don't have the ability to have AOE attacks that are also boosted in power. That is not anything new.



The loss of the RDPA is a big part of the reasons why I'm justifying my abilities as they are. Normally, with the RDPA, I could hit multiple foes in one round with potentially heavy damage AND status affliction. With my build, Renny is pretty much forced to be single target, especially by the rules of ICT. Giving up the RPDA means giving up a hell of a lot of free offense, defense and utility for the entire three turns that it would have lasted. (And one of the previous approved abilities which I removed was enabling it to be ANY three turns of such power and not restricted to 3 straight turns like pokebrid), and 3 turns is a long portion of the battle.


Giving up the RDPA and thus the rage supplying overdrive specifically from the previous upgrade means losing the instant amount of huge source of rage I would have gotten which could be used for several abilities. Hence why increase in bonus of rage generation and the reduced cost in accessories.

The loss of the RDPA's sheer offensive power and AOE capabilities means it takes longer to deal with foes, especially when such power came practically for free. I replaced it with accessories and the rage reduction to use it effectively (I'm certain I can only use one accessory a turn, right?) Which means that some bit of power could still be maintained but there would be a cost to using it unlike the RDPA.

The loss of the RDPA's defensive power and the reduction in killing speed as mentioned means I would risk getting hit harder and more often (the longer they live, the more chances to attack they get). Thus why I justified the armor thing.

The techniques are supposed to be considered semi-seperate from the upgrades, but just running them with everyone to help ensure no abuse.


EDIT:

On a totally different side note, let's talk tactics. ^^

We all got 100 rage. This would be an awesome time for start using our techniques from the get go.

General plan:
1) Remove the protection that the Medic has.
2) Eliminate the Medic and thus prevent his item usage and rage support.
3: Put the pokemon trainers to sleep with Lola's Altaria's special ability thus preventing their pokemons from being resupplied when the pokemons are knocked out.

Impact: CC&C
Whitney: Gardevoir form. Black Hole "HPG Sergeant B" and "HPG Foodsoldier C". *Nice screw up there, Drac* Her Armaldo does Stone Edge on Crobat. (Used up 80 rage)
Kurika: OHKO move "Devil's Dance" on the now unprotected HPG Medic which has no protection against fighting moves. (Used up 50 rage)
Lola: Altaria form: Heavenly Voice on "HPG Squad Leader", "HPG Trainer" and "Sergent A" to put all three to sleep. (Used up 40 rage)
Mirror: Build Fire Evolith. Use Sledge Smash on Crobat if it is still up for Super Effective damage. If Crobat is already knocked out, use Dust Cluster on the Wretch A to deal super effective damage and measure its endurance. Reminder that she resist poison damage and is immune to poison status which should be important when considering the wretches.
Fire Evolith: Heat Wave on "Electric Evolith A" and "Footsoldier A".

Thoughts? I wasn't certain if CC&C allowed Renny to contribute since he's technically not an enforcer, even if I put him in the back row in the mean-time.

Drac, can you edit in the total power of the attacks of the footsoldiers and engineers? You kinda forgot that.

[Astral Harmony]

Hmmm...

*mathematizes*

Have the HPGs on the PATCA side attack the Wretches on the same side when the number of Wretches is greater than or equal to six. After all, even though the Wretches on that side aren't attacking the HPGs (Gransrax considers PATCA the greater threat on that side), the HPGs would want to keep the number of Wretches trimmed down since when and if PATCA dies, they'll have to contend with those Wretches just the same.

As for the Pokebrid equations, I think keeping the first idea is best, and then leaving it to higher ranks in Slayer to restore some, if not all, of the stat discrepancies due to...c'mon, Armored, think of a smart-sounding scientific term..."harmonizing".

[Dracorion]

Menarker, the Footsoldier and the Medic and the Engineer don't get their power posted I believe because they get normal Slayer power.

Unlike the Squad Leader and the Sergeant who are improved Slayers or something.

Actually, the way Second Wind works your Rage can go over 100. It just ignores the cap.

And when the hell did we decide that Pokebrids can use their SynchTechs out of Paradigm Shift? Because I'm pretty sure before we can implement that we have to decide on the power of the techs inside and outside of Paradigm Shift for every single Pokebrid.

SCREW UP I THINK NOT.

And even so Lola's tech works on adjacent enemies. And the Trainer isn't adjacent to the Squad Leader. There are pokemon in the middle.

C,C&C doesn't work on Renny, though Whitney gets a turn out of it so you can just put Renny in the front row. Also, it's a free action for Impact.

Awesome AB.

Shush. Stay out of the Pokebrid stats. Menarker already dropped it.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Actually, the way Second Wind works your Rage can go over 100. It just ignores the cap.

I was under a different impression. That the rage that specifically comes from Second Wind could go over 100 if the party had more than 50 rage to begin with (to prevent wasted rage). Mind you, I don't mind your suggestion at all. Is there a new cap for it? Like is there a maximum rage that can be had while under Second Wind status?

And when the hell did we decide that Pokebrids can use their SynchTechs out of Paradigm Shift? Because I'm pretty sure before we can implement that we have to decide on the power of the techs inside and outside of Paradigm Shift for every single Pokebrid.

Well, I was pretty sure that we'd agree to do it. Didn't know we were still waiting for modification before implementation.

And even so Lola's tech works on adjacent enemies. And the Trainer isn't adjacent to the Squad Leader. There are pokemon in the middle.

Sorry. AB's newer datasheet that I pulled out the info from seems to be abbreviated. Didn't mention adjacent specifically.

C,C&C doesn't work on Renny, though Whitney gets a turn out of it so you can just put Renny in the front row. Also, it's a free action for Impact.

Well, my idea was to have Whitney use her Sync Tech twice in the turn, (two black holes) hence why I thought of putting her in the front row so she get an extra action. This of course assumed that we were in agreement that sync techs could be done outside of paradigm shift.
Also, Impact's bio did not mention anything about the move being a free action. Would have been nice to know sooner.


Anyhow, I'm going to re-sum up the upgrades, sans the things I said I would remove. I'll edit those into here. Also edited a few conflicting errors I noticed.


Renny's development plan and details.

Renny's Development Plan and Details


Pokemon Trainer (Level 5)

- 1st Xth Stage/Veteran upgrade is now available. Legendary Pokemon do not evolve, but can be Veterans.

Swampert:
Base Stats (605)
Ability: Competitiveness
Hitpoints: 125 (25 point boost)
Attack: 135 (25 point boost)
Defense: 100 (10 point boost)
Special Attack: 85 (no boost)
Special Defense: 100 (10 point boost)
Speed: 60 (no boost)



- 1st custom move availability.

Scapegoat (Dark Status move)
Select any friendly target (yourself included). All moves that would target that ally/yourself is redirected to a different ally/yourself of the user's choice. If the pokemon is attacked with a move that hit multiple opponent, reduce its power by 50% but the attack is not prevented. If the scapegoated target is knocked out, all moves still get redirected and is wasted.

-----

Pokemon Breeder (Level 1)

- Base Rage generated goes from 5 to 7. Whenever the rage any trainer have would be 1 less than a multiple of 5, round up to that multiple. (For bookkeeping purpose so rage doesn’t reach odd numbers.)
- 3rd trainer action.
- Renny gain an extra use of Trainer Action per turn. This means Renny can either use two Trainer Actions per turn or he can use a Trainer Action in the same turn as a Pokebrid Action or a Slayer Accessory.

--------------------


Slayer (Level 1)

- Default Normal type armor. 50% damage reduction from Normal Type attacks.
- Can possess a loadout of three armor aside from the default normal type armor.
- Can switch these equipment loadouts completely in between battles, but can request them from Daphne to switch them out one-by-one.
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 4 elements
(See Conditional Upgrades in section below)
- Stats arrangement is customized but keeping same base total. Stats are (Chosen pokemon's stats+Slayer Stats)/2). (559)

HP: 100
Attack: 125
Defense: 90
Special Attack: 29 (Would be great if it could go lower but highly doubt it)
Special Defense: 100
Speed: 115

-----

Slayer (Level 2)
- Armor Guardian Globe (Ruin -50%, Fear immunity) is available.
- Renny is not forced to wear Normal as default armor. (He can wear a different armor in its place). Wearing Normal armor now grants immunity to Exhaustion.
- Slayers can now equip one of the Accessories AB made. Each activated use of an accessory costs 30 rage.

-----
Slayer (Level 3)

- The minimum base power of Slayer Attacks (and thus ICT attacks) is 130.
- Can wear a second accessory.
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 8 elements

-----
Slayer (Level 4)

- All Slayers also gain Armor Affinity. What this means is that if a weapon they use deals the same type of damage as a piece of armor they have equipped protects against, they get a STAB modifier. This STAB modifier is now 2.0 as opposed the 1.5 used by Trainers and Snaggers. This feature applies to moves that qualify for ICT.
- Can wear a third accessory.
- Shock Trooper classification *See Conditional Upgrades below*

-----

Slayer (Level 5)
- Renny can wear a fourth accessory.
- Rage costs for using accessories drop to 15.
- Overblades can use the Overpower skill to remove status effects. 15 Rage cost. This ability can be used regardless of the status afflictions he has, except for KO. No effect on debuffs.

-----

Overblade (Level 1)

- All stats gain 10 points.
- Base Rage generated is increased by 1.5 times (to 15 rage for slayer attack or being attacked).
- According to the Renny’s pokebrid type/s, gains additional type resistance and status immunity as if he was wearing the respective type/s of slayer armor, effectively making those type/s default armor/s. (He counts as wearing the armor/s despite not wearing it.)


-----

Overblade (Level 2)

- All stats gain 10 points.
- Intergrated Combat Training: Can use 12 elements.

-----

Overblade (Level 3)

- All stats gain 15 points.
- Base Rage Generation is now 2.0 times the normal rate.






Conditional Upgrades:

1) Upon getting 1 level of Pokebrid and 1 level of Slayer, Renny gains Intergrated Combat Training.

Intergrated Combat Training enables pokebrid moves to be used in place of Slayer weapons for all attacks, whether basic attack or sweeps or even RDPAs. The moves are pumped up to have the same base power that Slayer Weapons have (120 at Slayer 1 and 130 at level 3). AOE move become Single Target with no backlash. The rules are as follows:
A) Only moves that use the Attack stat subtype qualify. No Special Attack moves. (Status moves don't need buffing anyhow)
B) All moves learned by level-up qualify automatically. This doesn't apply to moves that can only be gained by breeding, tutoring or so.
C) Up to 3 Slayer empowered moves for each of respective pokebrid's types. (Psychic and Fighting)
D) All other element types chosen at respective upgrades only get 1 extra attack. If the pokebrid does not have an attack of a certain element, that attack type is unavailable.
E) All the moves that fit the above count as Slayer attacks and thus qualify for any upgrades or factors that influence them such as base power, slayer armor STAB bonus and rage generation and anything else Slayer Related.
F) 4 Elements are chosen at Slayer 1, a total of 8 is available at Slayer 4 and a total of 12 are available at Overblade 2.
G: All attacks that qualify can have the False Swipe function added to it if desired.

2) Upon getting 4 levels of Slayer and 4 levels of Trainer, Renny gains Shock Trooper classification.

Shock Trooper classification allows Renny to fight alongside his pokemons, with the three (2 pokemons and Renny) being able to attack on the same turn with no penalty. Renny doesn't actually count as a Shock Trooper. He just has the ability.




Trainer Actions)

Attentive Care: Restore the health of both his pokemons by 30%.

Guiding Support: A pokemon forfeits their attack to aid any ally with their attack via guiding them with enhanced senses or abilities. Target ally gains the benefit of Lock On/Mind Reader and Serene Grace. (Move will not miss (thus negating even 100% evasion) and has double chance of triggering status conditions or effects that happen some of the time.) If this action is applied to someone who already has the effect of Serene Grace on them, then add the base probability after the multiplication of Serene Grace for the true success rate.

Steadfast Expertise: Both pokemons are freed from the effects of techniques that would cause negative effect/s over several turns such as a Ghost type Curse, Nightmare, Domination techniques as well as anything that can be dispelled by Rapid Spin. Additionally, attacks and abilities that would give them status afflictions or debuffs will fail to do so for the round. (However, this does not cure them of afflictions and debuffs already on them).



Selection of ICT moves: (Excluding Automatics although I still have to choose their respective element to use it.)

Psychic: Zen Headbutt (There are no additional physical psychic attacks)
Fighting: Rock Smash, Drain Punch, Brick Break (Ankle Sweep replaces Brick Break in the sequel)
Normal: Secret Power
Dark: Knock Off
Ghost: Shadow Sneak
Electric: Thunderpunch
Fire: Fire Punch
Rock: Stone Edge
Ice: Ice Punch
Ground: Earthquake (Smooth Over in sequel)
Grass: Leaf Blade
Flying: Aerial Ace

Not chosen: Ruin, Dragon, Steel, Water, Bug, Poison


Future Signature and Love Techs:

Love Tech # 2: Together in Spirit!
Together in Spirit!: (Lola)
Cost/Requirement: 20 rage rage per affected ally. Pokemons of selected allies are automatically included in the cost. (Destroyer cannot be chosen)
Description: Through the spiritual connection that originate this technique stems from true love, anyone can find a ray of light providing mental and emotional strength from any trusted friend, even during the desperate and darkest hour when things seem their bleakest.
Effect: For 3 turns, Rage total can be totaled and split between allies as desired at the start of each turn.
Rage does not stop generating for any status reason, such as during pokeshift or RDPA or status conditions (Although they still don’t gain rage for attacks that required rage) nor can they be prevented from spending rage. Hence it also effectively acts as an immunity/cure to Apathy and Exhaustion during its duration.


Signature Tech: Valiant Rush
Valiant Rush
Description: Renny goes into a passionate frenzy when his allies and friends are in danger and personally enters the fray, inflicting damage on any targets of his choice with multiple blows that foes find difficult to endure.
Cost: 20 RP per hit. For every ally in Renny's team below 33% hitpoints and thus "in the red" or knocked out (or for every trainer down to 2 or less pokemons including 0), reduce the cost by 20. For each of Renny's pokemons knocked out, reduce the cost by 10. It's possible for the technique to be free if the reduced cost is equal to or more than the cost he pays for.
Effect: For every "payment" of 20 rage, Renny does 100% Massive Critical Hit with Almighty type damage to a target of choice. Thus he can choose to focus each individual hit on one target or divide the hits among any number of foes. The power of each blow is around 130 power after taking the doubled power due to crit in account, although the move still gains in strength with use of attack stat boost as normal. This move can only be used once every three turns regardless of how much rage he used or how many or few hits he done.


Signature Tech:
Bonds of Comradery: (Swampert Co-op)
Cost/Requirement: 50 for Renny, 30 for each ally wanting the effect.
Description: The vigor for battle is awakened in the trainer’s pokemon, as they eagerly strive to demonstrate to their foes and friends the proof of their master’s meticulous care and skill. With truly brave and skilled trainers, the barrier between trainer and pokemon is broken as they fight together on the field, becoming equals in comrades. To fight for a beloved master as an apprentice is an awesome feeling, but to be a trustworthy ally, to fight alongside him/her united as one team… there is no greater pride!
Effect: For that turn, anyone who is able to fight under their own power is able to fight like a Shock Trooper. The “Shock Trooper” cannot be directly targeted by enemy moves for this round as long as their pokemons are still standing. (The damage and effects of AOE attacks still works) If someone who doesn’t have 2 pokemon pays the price, anyone else who also paid can lend them a pokemon or two. Boost all stats by 1 stages for the trainer and the pokemons (even lent ones), which lasts even after this technique has ended.
Renny can still attack on the same turn of using this technique.



Also, any thoughts about the 3rd Trainer Action "Steadfast Expertise"? The other two are already previously approved and currently usable as of this moment, so no point thinking of changing it.

[Dracorion]

How you said Second Wind works is how I meant. The Rage gained specifically from Second Wind can make your total go over 100.

Fair point about Whitney. Though she could use her pokemon's action for the extra Black Hole.

I'd suggest treating SynchTechs as they are until we can make in-Paradigm Shift and out-Paradigm Shift versions for all of them.

It'll take awhile and I'm not going to slow this RP down even further waiting to get it done.

[Dracorion]

Okay, Menarker. For Swampert's abilities, Sheer Force, Anger Point and Competitiveness are fine.

The 15 Rage cost for accessories, plus four accessories, plus 2x Rage is far too much.

[Menarker]

Ok, I choose Competitiveness out of those ones.
^^; Didn't noticed that Sheer Force has been edited over the last few weeks. Previously, it said that all moves would be boosted by 30% but any moves with beneficical secondary effects (ones that could be boosted by Serene Grace) would lose them.

Ah well. I like Competitiveness too. ^^

Also, I'm pretty much set on those other things...

Would like to hear from Gem about those things. Although I did say I would be willing to consider raising the cost to 20.

Or maybe having it so the rage reduction only works for one or two of the accessories?

[Dracorion]

Also, Rage-reliance in itself isn't that bad, except with that Lola Love Tech all you have to do is pay 30 Rage and the only weakness your Rage has is negated.

[Menarker]

Another thing I should probably mention...
Aside from talking about what justifications there is for those replacing the RDPA, I should probably mention what sort of "expected challenges" could be expected from playing this "character/class"
1) Playing as a pokemon trainer (Choices of moves/pokemons)
2) Playing as a Slayer (Juggling armor choices including regarding STAB, resistance and status immunity.)
3) Juggling between Accessories (One of the reasons why I wanted reduced price and larger accessory pool was so I can be encouraged to use other less used accessories if the situation calls for a little diversity.)
4) Juggling between whether to use Accessories, Trainer Actions or Pokebrid Actions. (Do I want to confuse a foe? Lower their defense? Use an accessory to protect myself? Do I want to heal my pokemons or help an ally) They are all useful, but accessories is the only one that has a cost to it.

Of course, 1 and 2 are pretty obvious since almost everyone does that. Number 3 and 4 however adds a bit more consideration (to me at least). Unless you want me to only use the free abilities like the pokebrid actions and Trainer Actions, I feel making the cost of accessories cheaper to give them more value should be considered. (I'd still be paying rage to use them)
Maybe put a limit on the number of passive accessories, so I'm not just stocking up on accessories that automatically grants bonuses? Like no more than 50% of the accessories can be passive.