"Celebrities Today Are Bad Role Models" or "Slow News Day"

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Kim

I'm glad that a thread about an incredibly sexist article devolved into the men of NPF dogpiling over one another to see who can be the most sexist.

because clearly insulting women for their own personal choices isn't sexist at all except it is really fucking sexist

Apparently me saying that sex/gender has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter still makes me sexist.

[Marc v4.0]

This is clearly going to get you places, Arcy

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by Arcanum

Apparently me saying that sex/gender has nothing to do with my opinion on the matter still makes me sexist.

Given that you are criticizing a woman for putting herself in a potential situation where she can be victimized in a way that is experienced far more often by women than men, the gender-neutrality clause of your statement carries little weight.

Kim and Marc could certainly stand to dial it back a little, as could you, but their point is no less valid. The vast majority of domestic abuse is committed by men against women, so while I'm sure you probably would say the same thing if it were a man in the situation, the fact is that you will rarely have such an opportunity, so your statement is sexist because the problem involved is sexist.

Also, victim blaming is awfully shitty in general. Really, it should be "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, FUCKING SHAME ON YOU."

[Ryong]

I was going to make a crazy post about how my family's trouble with abuse in the past and how the victim needs help standing up for herself and how you can't change some people and so on but no, fuck that. This is not that post. This is a different post.

Chris Brown is an asshole whose environment said it was a-okay to be an asshole, repeatedly, until it blew up on his face and some people started calling him out on it but it doesn't fucking matter because he has people who think he's alright. Yes, it's fucked up.

Rihanna needs to acknowledge what she's doing and how it's her choice to be with him. I'm going to take a wild guess here and say she probably thinks 1)it's not happening again and 2)she can change him. These have a tendency to be delusions from abuse victims.

Are these the points everyone's been trying to make? Fuck if I know, I hope so.

Meanwhile, I'm voting for this post be somehow made into required reading for discussion or at least some variation of it ( since this one was kind of personal ).

[Odjn]

It's a pretty stupid thing to do. It's her life though.

[shiney]

Rihanna needs actual help and support to break the cycle, and Chris Brown should probably just fall into obscurity. I can only hope that his very public persona and their relationship continues to bring light on the problem of the cycle of abuse and that he keeps getting shamed.

I do wish Rihanna hadn't gotten back together with him because it made it a lot easier for his supporters to keep being dickbags, but it is her life and choice. Anyhow Brown is the monster here and I for one wouldn't complain if his next music video featured him catching fire and then everyone stood around not putting it out. Just sayin'.

There are few people involved in this story that can be considered a good role model in any case. Rihanna promotes the sexualization of women for no good purpose other than money and fame. Brown represents many of the more despicable aspects of humanity. *shrug*

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by shiney

There are few people involved in this story that can be considered a good role model in any case. Rihanna promotes the sexualization of women for no good purpose other than money and fame.

This is where my personal beliefs usually conflict with reality. The point of role models is to inspire someone to succeed. And well, that method works. Yea I'd rather see people aspire to succeed and become famous through charity or science or even just legit artistic ability. But lets be realistic here, looks are a far bigger factor in our culture.

This goes for men and women.

There is a reason TV and movies have all organizations staffed by a crack team of highly trained super models

[shiney]

While I agree with you, that doesn't make it any more ethical that we are supposed to admire these people because they are talented and attractive. Why can't we admire people who are simply talented? We as a society place looks on a higher and more important pedestal than we do ability and that's something that really should change as it disenfranchises the entire portion of the populace who aren't hot by today's standards.

Arguments can be made regarding people like Christopher Walken or whatever, pretty unlikely to win the swimsuit competition, but how many young singers or actors/actresses do we have that aren't judged based on how fuckable they are instead of how talented they are? The promoters and consumers are equally as guilty in this honestly...we are marketed to and we happily accept it. They are all bad role models because they continue to create and recycle the perception that who you are is based largely on how you look.

[Osterbaum]

Ideas of beauty are quite subjective and have changed according to time and place (ie. culture). I suppose society's current ideas of beauty and what is attractive are based on several complicated factors. But the fact of how important beauty has become has, in my opinion, clearer causes. Beauty sells, and because everything that might net a profit will eventually be exploited by someone to make a profit and because we live in a profit oriented system, thus beauty has increased importance. Because it has market value.

This is really just something that occurred to me right this minute, so not exactly a perfectly fleshed out idea I've read tons on.

[Azisien]

People keep getting uppity about a pretty simple point, and so far this is only an example of crazy NPF is on throwing up social justice flags sometimes. TO BE SURE, most of the time it is with good cause, but this, right here, is just a poor mixture of membership hatred plus the fact that every person is open to criticism for their actions, not just oppressors*.

I'm waiting to read an actual argument, like Grimpond actually gave an effort, and although my initial intent in not mentioning Chris Brown was quite innocent, it was a good point that we should probably preface all our posts by reiterating his status as a piece of shit for abusing women. Everything after that, calling us sexist, calling men sexist, is plainly horseshit at this point.

This whole thread was about celebrities, people who have the public spotlights shone upon them and pedestals artificially raised above the crowd of human peasants. Insofar as that is the topic, yes, I'll use my non-personal amount of information at hand to make criticisms of celebrity actions. Including relationship decisions when one person was a victim of abuse some months earlier and one person was the abuser, the abuser performed his legal obligations from the legal punishment, but otherwise didn't show much remorse at all, nor explained to his fanbase how terrible the thing that he did was. And then they got back together.

Anyway, let's get it out there to even up the Rihanna-Was-Dumb:Chris-Brown-Is-Shit ratio. Chris Brown is a piece of shit.

Notice how in no way I am asking for control of her actions. Everybody is correct, in fact, she can do as she likes. She can also go jump into a mother bear's cage and punch the bear's cubs in the face. I wish her luck. She is still dumb. She is dumb because she should not do the action that she did. If I did the exact same action, I would be dumb. I HAVE been in (largely non-physical) abusive relationships before, though they were mutually so, they did have that cyclical pattern to them (and thank you for that reference, Grimpond and only Grimpond). And now that I'm well clear of them, what do I think of my actions in the past? They were dumb.

Just like Rihanna's was. That's it.

Originally Posted by shiney

Rihanna needs actual help and support to break the cycle,

Now this I am totally for! And who can say why this did not happen? Her net worth is somewhere around $50 million? She's famous, and while many folks defended Chris Brown, a lot of folks also supported her and decried him. If there's a mystery in this, it is probably that. I suppose it's possible she needed a supportive circle of friends, not money, but I don't even know what she has access to. Money buys a lot of stuff though, so I still feel extremely confident calling her decision a stupid one.

Anyhow Brown is the monster here and I for one wouldn't complain if his next music video featured him catching fire and then everyone stood around not putting it out.

(normally undetectable sarcasm)
My goodness! This man with an abusive past who was lawfully punished for his crimes was set fire and no one did anything! And you approve of it! Who is the real monster here? This thread is sadist as fuck!
(/end normally undetected sarcasm)