If you live in the United States, you should be disgusted with your country

[rpgdemon]

Having lived in the Boston area during the bombings and subsequent manhunt and shut down of cities: If you think all cops are evil, you are really out of touch, and are doing your argument a disservice. Even just the cops running into the bombing area to save others prove that.

Someone who is evil does not put their life on the line in order to save the lives of people who they don't even know.

[shiney]

The Police is a brotherhood and unfortunately the blue line is a very complex thing. Reasonable actions, like "don't shoot and kill an unarmed teenager" get lost. Reasonable actions, like "don't protect someone who shot and killed an unarmed teenager" get lost. They believe they are "helping" in some cases, and others are just trying to get rid of what they perceive as bad guys. Unfortunately though, likely due to the drug war and increasing militarization of the police, it appears that they have adopted an approach that is less "protect and serve" and more "view everyone with suspicion." When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

That said, if you're going to make a blanket assertion like all cops are evil or otherwise generalize, then you're in the wrong place for that. Outrage does not supplant discourse, and I hope people will hold themselves to a higher standard than the blogosphere.

I personally have many pages on constant follow that continuously highlight the abuse of power exhibited by police and have earned an inherent distrust of all boys in blue. Not all of them are evil; the last cop who pulled me over let me go with a warning -- arguably more because I am white and male, but he didn't have to let me go. Nevertheless many cops earn their badge and view it as a magic get out of jail free card that allows them to murder pets, beat homeless people senseless, and gun down innocent minorities because of circumstantial evidence. I do not trust police and I would hesitate to call 911 even if I were in danger in my own home because I have every bit as much likelihood of being the one who is shot or arrested as the perpetrator would. The police as a community have done themselves no favors in showing they are not a corrupt organization nationwide by the repetition of these actions and the shielding of officers involved. Ferguson is yet another example of this.

NPF, however, is not Ferguson, so I will ask people to step the fuck back if they are posting while angry or emotional, and return when they've cooled down and can approach an argument rationally.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

shiney: I have not been typing angrily. I have been an insanely cool head in all this.

And I have to reiterate, I have not said that cops are idiots. They are tools. There is a difference. They also rolled a 7 on INT.

[shiney]

One should take heed that I deliberately did not mention any names.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Originally Posted by shiney

One should take heed that I deliberately did not mention any names.

I know. I am simply stating that I have a cool head. I am so cool headed, when water gets poured on me, it turns to ice!

[Token]

Shiney, if people aren't angry or emotional when it comes to yet another instance of America proving that black lives don't matter, they're either utterly numbed from a lifetime of racism, a complete bastard, or so secure im their coccoon of white-not-having-to-give a fuck that they're actively harmful. Spend your life being told by media, other people, and most of all your own fucking government solely due to your color before coming down from the clouds to condescend how people shouldn't be emotional.

There is no room for dispassionate devil's advocism when the subject is institutionalized genocide.


TL;DR: I got a right to be hostile, man. My people being persecuted.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Token

Shiney, if people aren't angry or emotional when it comes to yet another instance of America proving that black lives don't matter, they're either utterly numbed from a lifetime of racism, a complete bastard, or so secure im their coccoon of white-not-having-to-give a fuck that they're actively harmful. Spend your life being told by media, other people, and most of all your own fucking government solely due to your color before coming down from the clouds to condescend how people shouldn't be emotional.

There is no room for dispassionate devil's advocism when the subject is institutionalized genocide.

It's not there yet as these incidents are few and far between. But the point he's trying to make is, keep a level head. Anger can lie to you and cloud your judgement.

Remember no one here is saying this guy and other officers that have committed crimes like this shouldn't have been charged with man slaughterer. But acting out of anger is how the Ferguson riots happened. Which ended up endangering the lives of innocent civilians in what was suppose to be an all out attack against their law enforcement. This was not the way to invoke change. Even Martin Luther King Jr would be sicken by the riots.

Act out of logic and seek answers. and punish the ones responsible with precision.

[shiney]

Originally Posted by Token

TL;DR: I got a right to be hostile, man. My people being persecuted.

Be mad all you want, but check it at the door when it comes to NPF. I completely support the protesters of Ferguson, Oakland, Minneapolis, NYC etc, and I support your right and in many ways obligation to be mad about this. I am much more of a proponent of equality across all races and the dis-assembly of privilege. I would argue I am "in your camp"? But I won't support that anger being used against people in this forum over a disagreement.

Like, no, I haven't experienced centuries of systemic disenfranchisement against my people, so I can't fathom the feelings it creates. I have no place in weighing in regarding my own feelings about this except in support of you and yours. I'm not going to sit back and watch hate and anger get tossed around in here at people though. You know? I want to keep the peace because NPF is not a place to foster enmity.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Originally Posted by Token

Shiney, if people aren't angry or emotional when it comes to yet another instance of America proving that black lives don't matter, they're either utterly numbed from a lifetime of racism, a complete bastard, or so secure im their coccoon of white-not-having-to-give a fuck that they're actively harmful. Spend your life being told by media, other people, and most of all your own fucking government solely due to your color before coming down from the clouds to condescend how people shouldn't be emotional.

There is no room for dispassionate devil's advocism when the subject is institutionalized genocide.


TL;DR: I got a right to be hostile, man. My people being persecuted.

I wouldn't call it genocide really. To me this is more akin to apartheid. And yes you do have every right to be pissed off.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by shiney

Be mad all you want, but check it at the door when it comes to NPF.

...Maybe you're the one who should check your privilege at the door?

African-Americans don't exactly have the luxury to engage in the cognitive dissonance necessary to separate themselves from the sociopolitical realities of discrimination against them. They live with it, every day of their lives, and you want them to bury that hatchet in a forum where the issue is being discussed?

Why the hell do we want NPF to be a place that stifles minority voices and refuses them the opportunity to speak out against oppression?

You see, here's the thing: When a woman shouts "Death to all men!" out of anger in response to rampant institutional misogyny, I have sufficient presence of mind to understand she's not condemning ME personally. She's not literally demanding my head on a platter to satiate bloodlust. She's reacting viscerally to the privilege I indirectly, passively, maintain as a male in our society. And insofar as I, by mere virtue of existing, regardless of my intent, benefit from said privilege she should be angry. At me, at the system, at men in general, at the world.

Like, no, I haven't experienced centuries of systemic disenfranchisement against my people, so I can't fathom the feelings it creates. I have no place in weighing in regarding my own feelings about this except in support of you and yours. I'm not going to sit back and watch hate and anger get tossed around in here at people though. You know? I want to keep the peace because NPF is not a place to foster enmity.

But that's just the thing...
When social justice advocates angrily respond to these kinds of arguments they're not angry at the privileged so much as the privilege. If you're interpreting the animosity as personal you're actually doing a disservice to the arguments being made by those who are oppressed by pretending that their oppression is seriously reflected by a perceived personal, one-on-one animosity on an internet forum. Like, I'm pretty sure the issue of racial inequality is far broader in scope than whether we're all buddy-buddy on an internet forum.

And why the hell should Token -- or any other woman or minority on this website -- care about tolerance and friendship on a fucking internet forum over their rights as human beings? The minute you try to make 'forum decency' some kind of far-reaching policy you're just enforcing the same bullshit conservatives utilize everywhere to stifle dissent among minority voices -- don't stir up any trouble or resentment because "Friendship is Magic" and you'd rather believe in the illusion of tolerance and mutual respect because from your lofty position as a beneficiary of privilege and as someone completely unaffected by daily examples of grotesque discrimination you have the luxury of believing you live in that kind of society, wherein you can just close your eyes and imagine the problems simply don't exist.

I can't think of anyone presently here in the forums who I hold personal animosity or vindictiveness towards, but 'tolerance' should never be interpreted as tacit acceptance of any and all positions anyone here may take, under the delusion that 'friendship' or 'mutual respect' alone is somehow sufficient to nullify any emotional reaction to objectively offensive comments or statements. Many people here -- myself included! -- are such beneficiaries of institutional privilege that we'll say utterly offensive things without even understanding the nature of our offensive conduct or how our comments indirectly propagate or support the very bigotry and insensitivity we claim to be against. How the hell can you then turn around and blame the incensed party for reacting with justifiable anger? How can we seriously create an atmosphere that's truly inclusive to those who are oppressed if we refuse to have honest, frank, angry discussions from time to time about how privilege really works?

I just don't get it. African Americans are being persecuted in my country and you're asking me to care more about the possibility that expressing anger may offend someone on this website than about the actual issues. Of course I'm angry. Everybody should be angry! If you're not angry, I really don't trust that you understand the gravity of the situation! And maybe like, exposure to the raw emotional reactions of those being impacted or those with the empathy to understand the objective nature of the impact is exactly what people who aren't livid about this need to read.

I need to read Token's raw gut reaction to this. Even if it's visceral. Even if it's ugly. Even if it seems to imply at first glance that he's angry at me. I need to be reminded, on a daily basis, that just because I'm stupidly blessed by social mores to live in a lovely cocoon of heterosexual white male privilege, that my own life experiences aren't a reflection of reality for so many people, and that I need to hold myself accountable and reflect harshly and honestly on my privilege and decry injustice against those who aren't born with the skin color, gender or sexual identity deemed 'normal' by a deranged, irrational society.