The Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[42PETUNIAS]

Originally Posted by Lord Balmung18

I went from a using a disability as a crutch worthless lowlife.

Just out of curiosity, is this a literal disability, or are you using a metaphor?

Personally, when I decided that I was atheist/agnostic, I think I experienced the same sort of "clicking" feeling as you described. I think different beliefs are right for different people. And that, above making others happy, above converting other people to what you think is best, above doing what you are told, is what truly matters. Making yourself happy.

Then i tried the other obvious answer, belief in nothing. I took the world for what it is, nothing supernatural, just accepting the explanations i was given. That lasted a very short time, cause theres just too many events, too many feelings and moments that cant be explained by weather baloons and swamp[ gas(lawl).

You'd have to say a lot, lot, lot more than that to convince anyone on that position. Some examples would be nice.

[ZAKtheGeek]

And that, above making others happy, above converting other people to what you think is best, above doing what you are told, is what truly matters. Making yourself happy.

Well, not me. I'm literally a philosopher; all I want is the truth. Personal convenience is irrelevant.

Although knowing truths makes me happy. So I guess you could see it that way too.

I don't know when exactly I "became" an atheist (which might have resulted from a lack of religious influence while growing up). I am pretty sure that the initial notion that convinced me was the consideration of religion in perspective. There have been thousands of religions throughout the history of civilization (let's not even go into the possible reasons for this), most of which I was and still am totally unfamiliar with, yet most of them are automatically discarded as "mythology." They're not even given a second thought. So what makes modern faiths any different, really?

It's like Dawkins said. "We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further."

[LordBalmung18]

Literal disability, something i could probably have coasted by the rest of my life on. But that would make only work for me, and i have other people to be concerned with.

And while i could happily quote examples of extranormal and paranormal things i felt ive experienced, it would be pointless. At some points you either have to go look for yourself or stick your thumbs in your ears and pretend its not there. That might sound harsh but its kinda like..a first kiss or really good ramen or the feeling that acompanies crushing someones soul in a videogame. You really have to experience it for yourself.

And while truth for the sake of truth sounds good in theory, nothing is ever that simple in real life. Things just dont line themselves up and say"Ok this is the way things really work. You can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Tell everyone. Now. Go. Quit drooling."

So..(dont miss the tiny irony here)What im telling other people these days..is they should take stock of everything like i did..and decide what they wanna believe. Dont let anyone else influence you till you make that decision.

[ZAKtheGeek]

And while truth for the sake of truth sounds good in theory, nothing is ever that simple in real life. Things just dont line themselves up and say"Ok this is the way things really work. You can prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. Tell everyone. Now. Go. Quit drooling."

I have no idea what you're talking about...

And while i could happily quote examples of extranormal and paranormal things i felt ive experienced, it would be pointless. At some points you either have to go look for yourself or stick your thumbs in your ears and pretend its not there.

That's interesting, because I could say the same about a theological viewpoint. So I'd be very interested in hearing more nonetheless. I'm really not getting what's unexplainable yet personal... It doesn't seem like you're talking about religious revelations; "God talking to you." I mean, I could think of some unexplained things in this world (their existence doesn't prove much in the face of all that has been reasonably explained), but they're quite open for anyone to examine or at least research.

[Funka Genocide]

I saw Nique mention that he is a Jehovah's witness and it reminded me suddenly of my early childhood. My mother had taken up with that particular religious bent when I was three or four, and as such I was silently indoctrinated into their worldview. I can't say that I ever believed it, but by the very nature of a parent child relationship I believed it was right to believe.

Something happens when faced with an illogical decision at an early age, or at least I believe it's a common phenomenon. Most people accept, adapt and internalize a belief. I tend to think of it as placing a certain truth in a little box for safe and eternal keeping. You put this little box at the foundation of an inevitable mountain of experience and suddenly it becomes unnassailable. No manner of mundane thought or revelation can open this box, that old and unexamined truth becomes a bastion of faith from which all other belief sprouts.

That's what's supposed to happen, that's what society at large and our beloved parents want to happen, they want you to believe in their fantasies and you want so desperately to belong. It's a heartless thing to do to a child.

My own personal experience went differently of course, I can't fully explain why either. Perhaps it was the overt perversion of faith presented to my simple young mind that lead me to expel it, the fact that so many people seemed to be waiting around for the world to end, waiting for all problems to solve themselves, waiting to be saved from the trouble they started themselves. Though that's a 23 year old looking back nearly two decades, who can say what a five year old me really thought, only that this obsession with armageddon disgusted me.

I was haunted by images of global destruction, by the realities of mortality and by the contradictions of a society supposedly ran by responsible adults. there were no answers, only the pacifying influence of blind faith, For some reason that palcebo just wasn't effective for me.

Losing one's faith, even a faith only as young as I was, is an unsettling event. But with the loss of one faith is the advent of a vacuum, contrary to what many nihilists might believe, it is impossible to believe in nothing. Even nothing is something right?

Many years, religious discussions and life altering events later I'm still what you could patent as an atheist, and for a very simple reason that I believe many religious persons overlook.

Religion is waiting for someone else to fix the world, true faith is believing you can do it yourself.

Believe in people, they're all we've got.

I'd love to have a few religious discussions, unfortunately I think I'd come off as violently opposed to any and all religions (which I am) I'm not an illogical opponent of course, but I find that battles of faith are impossible to win. YOu have to let go first, then comes enlightenment. Or something like that.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

I simply find it interesting that atheists often refer to themselves as "enlightened". I'd like for an atheist to explain what makes them any more enlightened than someone who believes in God... because there's an awful lot of wise, intelligent, self-aware people that believe in God for me to think that a 20 year old atheist is enlightened and others are not. In fact, it seems awfully arrogant to me.

[Azisien]

I'd hazard a guess and say both sides are pretty arrogant. Now, I'm a 20 year old athiest, but I don't consider myself "enlightened." Nor do I think I "have it all figured out." One of the things I like about (my) atheism is the uncertainty. The fact that I actually don't have a problem doing "I don't know" to something. And similar to Zak, a good old fashioned search for truth.

One of these days I should take up that somebody's post a while back and describe how I wound up where I am today.

[Archbio]

I simply find it interesting that atheists often refer to themselves as "enlightened". I'd like for an atheist to explain what makes them any more enlightened than someone who believes in God

Just reading the introduction of this article might give you a clue. I mean, if you were really looking for an answer, that is, and weren't just itching for a pretext to call people arrogant.

[Funka Genocide]

Originally Posted by Archbio

Just reading the introduction of this article might give you a clue. I mean, if you were really looking for an answer, that is, and weren't just itching for a pretext to call people arrogant.

Arch, did you ever know that you're my hero?

[ZAKtheGeek]

Sometimes I do feel pretty clever being an atheist among a world of so many theists... Kinda sad, really. From a number of perspectives.

Now, I'm a 20 year old athiest, but I don't consider myself "enlightened." Nor do I think I "have it all figured out." One of the things I like about (my) atheism is the uncertainty. The fact that I actually don't have a problem doing "I don't know" to something.

The wise man knows he is not wise.