Mafia: Bleach

[Inbred Chocobo]

I'm not saying that Ecurt knows roles, I am just saying he knows your secret role due to the fact that both you and him are in the cult. He is simply posting either dead people or randomly accusing people after that.

Edit: As for the secret role thing, SK decided to reveal them to the PO, she isn't here right now (will be a couple hours) and you can ask her when she shows up.

Edit2: As for telling teammates, I see nothing in the rules about that.

[Ryanderman]

Vote: Arhra (again) I don't believe Ole' Dude when he says he wouldn't have told the cult his role. He's in the cult, and he told them he was the deputy. That's what I believe.

EDIT: or SK told the cult leader Ole Dude's role when he was initiated. SK tells the PO the secret role of someone he investigates, so it would make sense for her to tell the cult the secret role of someone they've initiated.

[Mr.G.Williams]

Vote: B_Real_Shadows

The moment that a plan that had clearly been previously devised begins, who hops right aboard? Additionly, B_real has been lying rather low throughout the game.

I somehow suspect it does not matter at this point anyway. Chances are the cult has enough sway inside the mafia and the town to manipulate the votes to the point that a cult victory is certain. Feel free to induct me when you have the time =P

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

Originally Posted by IC

I'm not saying that Ecurt knows roles, I am just saying he knows your secret role due to the fact that both you and him are in the cult. He is simply posting either dead people or randomly accusing people after that.

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

EDIT: or SK told the cult leader Ole Dude's role when he was initiated. SK tells the PO the secret role of someone he investigates, so it would make sense for her to tell the cult the secret role of someone they've initiated.

You both forgot one possibility.

Its that Ryanderman is the Cult Leader and Inbred is his cultist. Thus IC made his claims to quickly try and get one more day over with a townie lynch, which would secure the cult's victory.

Then when the true PO shows up and points the finger at Ryanderman you two team up and decide that we're cultists.

Inbred, you only mentioned my role after Ecurt called it out. I know I'm not a cultist, so that means you're scum.

Edit:

Forgot to address this, but I was and have been under the impression that this game runs under very similar if not almost the exact same rules as the others in regards to secret roles. If you'll look back you will notice that B_real almost got modkilled for insinuating that he had a secret role in a previous game (Fenris' Mafia, if I recall correctly). So I assumed and have been working under said rules since we started and I obtained this role.

Doesn't matter anyways since I'm a townie, but eh, whatever.

[Ryanderman]

But what reason would IC have had to mention it at all if he wasn't the PO? If he was trying to trick everyone into thinking Ecurt was scum, how would it help to confirm one of Ecurt's investigations?

Inbred, you only mentioned my role after Ecurt called it out. I know I'm not a cultist, so that means you're scum.

I know I'm not the cult leader, so that means Ecurt is scum. If Ecurt is scum he could only have known your role if you were scum. That makes you scum.

EDIT: ok, so he could also have known your role if the PO is also scum and gave it to him. Or if he is the PO & scum at the same time and lied about me, but not about you.

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

But what reason would IC have had to mention it at all if he wasn't the PO? If he was trying to trick everyone into thinking Ecurt was scum, how would it help to confirm one of Ecurt's investigations?

Well, it wouldn't help him much if he denied my secret role when I roleclaimed it, would it? I mean it'd look real bad for him if not only another claiming PO, but also a Deputy Secret role contradicted his words.

Edit: Either way it goes, no one obviously knew the full extent of my role. For all either of them could have thought that I do know who is the true PO, unbeknownst to them. So it would basically be not worth the chance to make claims about me not having the Deputy role.

[Ryanderman]

I was thinking more along the lines of why even claim to have investigated you, but I forgot that you had Meden's role and there was no way anyone wouldn't have investigated her after that the first day.

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

Mesden always gets investigated. I'm truly surprised that both of them claim to have investigated her/me one Night 1 instead of Night 0. I mean, its a nice gesture of a slight bit of trust that she isn't always a bad girl and all, but from what I've seen in all the other Mafia's she is one of the first to be revealed/investigated regardless of her role.

Edit:

Originally Posted by IC

Night 3, I got Demonlink2, who is a townie.

Hrm, interesting that you both targeted almost the exact same people and had conflicting results. This basically completes the Cult+Mafia theory for me. Ecurt found that Demon is mafiate, now Inbred, whom is also defending the accused Cult Leader, defends an accused mafiate by saying that he's a townie.

[Ryanderman]

Ok, I'm going to ask you to play a little hypothetical game here. Pretend that you believe me when I say that I'm not the cult leader, and I'll pretend that I believe Ole dude when he says he isn't cult. What would it mean if we are both innocent?

I think it would have to mean that both Ecurt and IC are scum, and that the PO has been initiated into the cult. The PO in this case could then be either Ecurt, IC, or someone else entirely. The only way Ecurt could know your role is if the PO investigated you. IC would have to be scum because if he isn't the PO - he claimed to be, and if he is the PO - he told Ecurt your role.

So they're both scum. Is Arhra scum? I think in this senario, no. Arhra was making a big deal earlier in the game about the danger of the cult, it would make sense for them to target him. But what would be the point of going against each other?

They could be entirely seperate scum. We've been assuming up till now that the cult controls the mafia, basically because we've seen it before and because none of the cult have been killed yet. But maybe the mafia hasn't been infiltrated. Ecurt could be the real PO and part of the cult, so in this case IC would be mafia trying to get Arhra killed. But why would he put himself in danger to do that?

If the mafia is not cult, they are in just as much danger of losing as is the town. Perhaps IC really believes Arhra to be the cult leader based on his actions, and is hoping to stop the cult and gain the town's trust at the same time. He would have to assume that the real PO would contradict him, as Ecurt did. It then works as a clever way to out the PO so he can be killed at night. Except that it would mean the death of IC the next day. Perhaps that was a sacrifice he or his don was willing to make to find the PO and stop the cult.

Or we could be right and the mafia could all be cult. Either IC or Ecurt could be the PO in this scenario, and it doesn't really matter. What matters is that in the case they are following for the most part a complicated script designed to do.... something. I don't know what. If IC claimed to be the PO and no one had appeared to contradict him, most of us would have assumed he was telling the truth and no one wanted to risk being exposed by trying to pretend to be the PO. IC could have accused whoever he wanted to and we would all have gone along with it. The cult could have had IC accuse one of their own, and then all voted for that person. If they controlled the mafia, they would still have enough people after the leader inducted another person and the mafia killed a townie to win. A convoluted scheme attacking each other just seem more trouble than would have been necessary. I have trouble believing this is what's happening.


So, putting the possibility of my or Ole Dude's scummyness back in the mix we have three options.

1) I'm the cult head, I'm lying through my teeth, and Ecurt is telling the truth. The best course of action would be to lynch me. But as I know this isn't the case, soand since I'm the one writing these ideas right now, I'm going to dismiss it. I will Roleclaim: Townie It makes me feel better, though it doesn't make a difference.

2) Ole Dude is lying, he did tell Ecurt his role, and IC is telling the truth. The best course of action is to lynch Arhra. But this would mean that Ole Dude is not only lying about being cult, he's lying about the rules of the game, and trying to confuse the rules. I find that type of action to be scummy not only in the game sense, but scummy as a person as well. I don't want to believe that of Ole Dude, so for the purposes of this hypothesis I'm going to dismiss this option as well.

3) IC is lying and is mafia. Ecurt is lying and is cult (and maybe PO as well) the mafia is not all part of the cult. We still need to find and lynch the cult leader. I doubt it's Ecurt, as that would be putting himself in the limelight too much for safety. It could be Arhra. If IC is mafia, it's in his best interest to lynch the cult leader, so maybe he has evidence against Arhra. But then again, why wouldn't the mafia have killed Arhra last night if they thought he was the cult leader? Perhaps there is a mafia civil war, only one or two members initiated and the others rebelling. I don't know. The cult leader in this case could really be anyone, likely not trying to draw attention to himself.


Drat, all this hypothesizing I've been doing, as I've been writing it down hasn't led me anywhere. I know now that I don't want to believe IC is the PO, because that would mean that Ole Dude is trying to lie about the rules, which would be a really crappy thing to do. I'm going to leave my vote where it is for now, and keep trying to figure this out. Maybe there is a scenario where Ecurt and IC both being cult makes sense.

[Ole' Dude With the Face]

I'm going with basically number one. It seems to be the simplest answer and normally thats the best way to go. You saw how Roy defended himself against my claims of his scumminess? Thats basically what I see going on here again.

Options 2 and 3 get far too complicated to even begin to be thought about, I mean seriously, there is far too much hypothesizing there for anything sound to be based on and it simply will lead the town further down a road of distress.

Originally Posted by Ryanderman

because that would mean that Ole Dude is trying to lie about the rules,

This I really would like to address, more than anything else in your post. I assumed that the mechanics of this game worked along the same lines as the others that I had watched and the one I participated in (8bitchat, SoL, NPF mafias). If this is not how the mechanics work, I apologize, as you can see, assuming has made an ass out of me. But, I still wait for SK's confirmation one way or another, now that I've looked through the rules again, to see whether I need to eat my foot on that account or not.