Pokemon Umbral Theatre 2: Devoted to That She-Devil, Charlotte Beaufort

[Dracorion]

Couple of qualms:

1) I don't remember if Pokebrids can use the moves that aren't available to their forms, but are available to the pre-evolutions to their forms. Though I notice you didn't actually list any moves available to Mamoswine's pre-evolutions, there. Still, part B) says that you would be able to use them.

2) Even though Pokebrids still have the most diversity, the fact is they have some moves that are worthless because they have access to more powerful versions of those moves. For example, Mamoswine has no reason to use Mud-Slap when it can use Mud Bomb, or Ice Fang or Powder Snow when it can use Ice Beam. Therefore, the argument "but I'm only getting a few powered-up moves out of Mamoswine's HUGE movepool" has slightly less weight when that huge movepool is reduced to the few moves that are actually, y'know, useful.

3) Though the "only moves that take Attack into account get powered-up" limitation is nice, how would you justify it ingame?

[Menarker]

1) I didn't list them in Mamoswine's case because he's a case of more or less straight out evolution (his only quirk is that he evolves when he knows a certain move). For some pokemons that evolves through evolution stones, they know different elements moves that their pre-evolution would not know.

And even some level up pokemons learn different moves. Lombre, the evolved form of Lotad learns Hydro Pump as his most powerful move, which is water type. The opposite is true with his earliest form, Lotad, which his most powerful level up moves are grass, Energy Ball. Ludicolo, the fully evolved form on the other hand, doesn't learn any new moves, just like how Pikachu doesn't learn any new moves if it evolves into Raichu too soon. (A plot point in an early anime episode against the Electric Gym leader Lt.Surge)

Also, with my Mamoswine's case, its pre-evolution could learn Amensia which Mamoswine replaces with Scary Face. AB allows me to use both of them. I just didn't include that in the example because it's a status move that couldn't care less because it doesn't have a power to boost.

Anyhow, AB said that Pokebrids could use the attacks of all their previous forms. Mind you, the key word is PREVIOUS, not ALTERNATE. A Leafeon pokebrid would be able to use any of the moves that Eevee could, but it could not use any moves that Flareon or Umbreon could use if Leafeon or Eevee couldn't learn it normally.



2) Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful. Ice Fang has a chance of freezing OR flinching. Avalanche has double damage if the user gets hit first. Icy Wind lowers Speed.
Same with Ground type. Mud Shot lowers speed. Mud Bomb lowers Accuracy.
There is a bit more variety as to which effects you want to use. Normal type moves has Body Slam for paralysis, Facade for more power when afflicted with status and so on and so forth.


3) I already explained this, but I'll explain again.
The only reason why Slayers (They are mere humans if you remember) benefit from Special Attack is because they use energy weapons like Water Cannon Guns, or Ice Cannons or Electric Shock Weapons. Humans innately don't have the ability to use special attack. (People who claim to be extraordinary like true Psychics like Sabrina are the exception) It's all part of the weapon. So if Slayers lose their weapons, the only thing they can naturally use is their attack stat.

Now, take Renny. He sworn off (or will swear off) weapons in general. What possible training can Slayer teach him now? The answer? How to train his body. How to make himself stronger. How to be more durable. How to fight hands on or improvise weapons out of himself or his environment. Slayers can't teach him to do Air Slashes or teach him how to breath fire, even if Renny's Pokebrid form could allow him to do that. But the things that come out of using your own physical body... Slayer can help teach that. That is why the Attack Stat is used as the restriction.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

AB allows me to use both of them.

Has AB said that Pokebrid forms have access to the moves available to their pre-evolutions?

Because I don't think he said he'd let you specifically use them either.

Originally Posted by Menarker

2) Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful. Ice Fang has a chance of freezing OR flinching. Avalanche has double damage if the user gets hit first. Icy Wind lowers Speed.
Same with Ground type. Mud Shot lowers speed. Mud Bomb lowers Accuracy.
There is a bit more variety as to which effects you want to use. Normal type moves has Body Slam for paralysis, Facade for more power when afflicted with status and so on and so forth.

Could be? That's bullshit and you know it. You're never going to use Mud Shot over Mud Bomb, because the chance to inflict status effects used by pokemon moves is negligible.

Originally Posted by Menarker

3) I already explained this, but I'll explain again.
The only reason why Slayers (They are mere humans if you remember) benefit from Special Attack is because they use energy weapons like Water Cannon Guns, or Ice Cannons or Electric Shock Weapons. Humans innately don't have the ability to use special attack. (People who claim to be extraordinary like true Psychics like Sabrina are the exception) It's all part of the weapon. So if Slayers lose their weapons, the only thing they can naturally use is their attack stat.

Now, take Renny. He sworn off (or will swear off) weapons in general. What possible training can Slayer teach him now? The answer? How to train his body. How to make himself stronger. How to be more durable. How to fight hands on or improvise weapons out of himself or his environment. Slayers can't teach him to do Air Slashes or teach him how to breath fire, even if Renny's Pokebrid form could allow him to do that. But the things that come out of using your own physical body... Slayer can help teach that.

Right, thanks. That makes sense.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Has AB said that Pokebrid forms have access to the moves available to their pre-evolutions?

Because I don't think he said he'd let you specifically use them either.

Guess you missed me saying that in my post above after I edited it in, since you were writing.
Yes he did. I even asked via PM. I wanted to clarify the rules regarding Pokebrid when I was pondering which classes I would branch out to.

Could be? That's bullshit and you know it. You're never going to use Mud Shot over Mud Bomb, because the chance to inflict status effects used by pokemon moves is negligible.

Guess you were writing when I edited some details above, but here is the short version of it.

Remember how I said that that the pokemon moves would be buffed to be equal to Slayer Weapon power? Mud Shot and Mud Bomb would not have a difference powerwise. I would be able to choose which effect would better suit the situation. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's speed and thus their crit rate? Cool. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's accuracy? Excellent. Otherwise, their power is the same as if it was a slayer weapon.

The reason why I said "could be" is because several moves DO have the same effect and their only difference would be attack power, such as your mentioned Ice Beam in comparision with moves like Powder Snow.

But moves with different effects would be able to come into play more effectively when their power are equal.


Glad you understand the entire Attack limitation thing.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

Guess you missed me saying that in my post above after I edited it in, since you were writing.
Yes he did. I even asked via PM. I wanted to clarify the rules regarding Pokebrid when I was pondering which classes I would branch out to.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Remember how I said that that the pokemon moves would be buffed to be equal to Slayer Weapon power? Mud Shot and Mud Bomb would not have a difference powerwise. I would be able to choose which effect would better suit the situation. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's speed and thus their crit rate? Cool. Do I want to attempt to lower a foe's accuracy? Excellent. Otherwise, their power is the same as if it was a slayer weapon.

Like I said, bullshit.

Mud Shot and Mud Bomb was a bad example.

I dunno if there are any, but say there are two Physical moves of the same type. Both have different power and have a chance to cause different status effects.

You're telling me you'd pick the one with the least power, even if the status effect it could cause is better?

Fuck no, because like I said, the chance to cause status effects is negligible when it comes to pokemon moves. You don't take it consideration.

And when you pick your three moves of that type to power up, are you really going to pick the one with the least power over the one with more?

Originally Posted by Menarker

The reason why I said "could be" is because several moves DO have the same effect and their only difference would be attack power, such as your mentioned Ice Beam in comparision with moves like Powder Snow.

That doesn't make sense. You said:

Well, that is more or less true with some moves, but some moves have different effects that could be terribly useful.

You were referring to moves that have different effects. And saying that those effects could be useful, see above for my thoughts on that.

Originally Posted by Menarker

But moves with different effects would be able to come into play more effectively when their power are equal.

And if the power isn't equal, hmm? Which would you pick?

PS: Geminex, when you said this:

Wrong, actually. I meant that we'd get to customize once our characters went past level 5. Even if their 6th level is one in Slayer, they'd get to customize. The other way'd be sorta retarded, really. It'd whale on multi-classers, for real this time.

You meant that we'd start as soon as we reach level 5 (after this mission), or after level 5, that is, starting at level 6 (after Pierce's sidequest)?

[Menarker]

You're not getting it. Moves that qualify under Intergrated Combat Training have a power of 120 (130 when the Slayer Weapon Upgrade activates). So the difference in power between moves would not matter.

Alright, let me use another type example.

DARK

Dark is known for very weak move power normally despite most dark type pokemons having high attack power. In fact, the highest attack power for Dark is 80, unless you count Dark Plate Arceus with Judgement for 100 Power.

However, if I was to use a dark pokemon with Intergrated Combat Training... or choose Dark for a type for extra moves.

Knock Off: Knock off an item from foe.
Thief: Take the item for myself.
Punishment: Deals heavy damage to foes that have buffed themselves.
Night Slash: High Crit Ratio
Crunch: Chance to lowers Defense.
Bite: Chance to Flinch

Under the system, power would not matter so much, since it would be equal power. Only the effect that comes with the pokemon would matter, and I would not have to push certain moves that are useful on the wayside just because their power is weak.
Am I facing a buffed foe? Punishment it is! (Only a select few have it though)
Does that foe have an item I could use? YOINK! THIEF!
Is that foe using an item that is useful to it but bad if I take it like Toxic Sludge? Knock off!

Mind you, I don't think there is a pokemon that has all of those moves or close to it. And if it did, it's probably a Dark specific type that doesn't have a good type coverage for other elements.


Or how about Flying type?

Aerial Ace? Never misses!
Pluck? No berry for you!
Fly? Anyone who tried to hit me on the first turn just wasted their action!


You get what I'm saying? The only difference in power would be in regards to STAB regarding Pokebrid type and Slayer Armor and Super Effectiveness.

[Dracorion]

Hm, well, fair enough.

My bad.

Though, I hope you're not thinking you can change the moves you power up all willy-nilly.

[Menarker]

No, the moves chosen are set in stone.

[Dracorion]

Good!

Though, read up a couple of my posts back and look at that note I left for Geminex, that might affect your upgrades a bit.

Though, all you'd have to do to fix it is take Trainer 5 before Pokebrid 1.

[Menarker]

I think Gem meant starting from level 5 onwards, since he might be getting a head-start on Demon by getting demon at level 5 and thus get two demons levels at level 6.

I pretty much have my heart set on getting Pokebrid next mission, especially because I don't want to reveal what pokebrid I chosen, and I don't want to wait and risk anyone taking a level of pokebrid and randomly choosing the one I chosen.

There is also a little bit of roleplay reasons for it too a bit, stemming from the fact that Renny is not feeling that happy about his pokemon being put into danger like with Lexhur/Togekiss example or the fact that he's personally scared of being sniped or attacked directly like Regina was without any manner of protecting himself. ^^; This mission was a steep learning curve for Renny!

The Pokebrid upgrade has not changed much from its original state, so hopefully that'll be allowed to proceed.

EDIT: Just for reminder, the build I proposed is still tenative, meaning things might be edited after AB posts what he promises. I might very well get rid of Sweep for an extra armor or something like that.