Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Not actually at all, no.

Sociopathy/psychopathy are marked by a lack of empathy and an inability to tell wrong from right. As a result, a true sociopath is entirely unrepentant of any crimes.

L2Psychology.

She's got shit wrong with her, but it's not sociopathy.

Yes, it's called the abusive cycle.

She was abused so now she abuses. Yes. However, abusers are not irredeemable, and are generally not sociopaths.

Insults about reading comprehension might carry more weight if you showed any actual understanding about this topic or what I've said about it.

Oh Krylo feels bad, a bloo bloo bloo

I don't know. I called that shit pretty good.

And I understand the character and story waaaay better than you.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Yes, it's called the abusive cycle.

Sociopaths don't enter into abusive cycles, what with not feeling guilt or empathy in the first place.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Sociopathy/psychopathy are marked by a lack of empathy and an inability to tell wrong from right. As a result, a true sociopath is entirely unrepentant of any crimes.

Which is great if you interpret Vriska's actions as having anything to do with empathy, which they don't.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Which is great if you interpret Vriska's actions as having anything to do with empathy, which they don't.

Except they do, unless you want to disagree with Terezi about what drives Vriska.

The character with the best grasp of troll psychology.

The character with supernatural psychology powers as seer of the mind.

AND the character who was Vriska's best friend for years.

[Specterbane]

Krylo, thank you. All of that needed to be said so very badly. But yeah, if people are intent on hating Vriska that's not going to stop them. If anything I think it shows that most of the trolls are pitiable by our standards, but some people just don't want to do that I guess.

EDIT: I step away for a few minuets while writing that and wow does a lot happen.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

Which is great if you interpret Vriska's actions as having anything to do with empathy, which they don't.

You just said she's entering into abusive cycles with her friends, something a sociopath wouldn't do.
Or to clarify, a human sociopath may enter into a faux abusive cycle in an attempt to absolve themselves of guilt in the public eye. After all if they're seen as apologetic, they're less likely to be in trouble. But Vriska doesn't need to do that at all. In fact, from what we know the exact opposite is true. She not only doesn't need to feel guilt by troll standards, but she's outright strange because she is.

Also, it might just be me but I see her mocking Karkat for his untroll-like behavior as trying to convince herself that even if she's not a good troll for feeling guilt, there's worse examples.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Krylo

Except they do, unless you want to disagree with Terezi about what drives Vriska.

The character with the best grasp of troll psychology.

The character with supernatural psychology powers as seer of the mind.

AND the character who was Vriska's best friend for years.

Yes Krylo I am clearly obligated to agree with one fictional character's views of another fictional character based on that fictional character's fictional credentials.

I mean Hermione says right there on the page that Harry Potter is the best and most excellent of wizards.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Karesh

Or to clarify, a human sociopath may enter into a faux abusive cycle in an attempt to absolve themselves of guilt in the public eye. After all if they're seen as apologetic, they're less likely to be in trouble. But Vriska doesn't need to do that at all. In fact, from what we know the exact opposite is true. She not only doesn't need to feel guilt by troll standards, but she's outright strange because she is.

In some general sense of "troll society" maybe but it's clear that within Vriska's social circle - which at this point comprises the entirety of her remaining race - her actions are clearly judged as negatively by those around her and her apologetics absolutely function as an attempt to get back into the good graces of / exert control over those same people.

[Archbio]

You know, I don't have any specific hate on for Vriska, but while I haven't been able to read the updates that you're all commenting on yet (the site seems to be down for me,) but basically all of the points by which Vriska is being defended (coming on top of the Gamzee autopilot killing spree) really just throw into sharp relief why I hate all of the trolls.

And I don't mean hating them in story, but rather hating the way they're written.

For me, they just don't work as characters in the end.

Equius dying in a way that was set up exactly by the very first thing we read about him is justified by being a "joke character?" They're all joke characters! The trolls in general not having character development is justified because "not working emotionally through the game" is the theme of their part of the story? Then why spend I don't know how many pages writing about their sorry asses?

Vriska's grotesque way of absolving herself of guilt by just being evil again is one step up from "troll society" because guilt is alien to them? How aliens have the trolls been written, really? And what's with the mass of (onscreen) non-murderous troll that are now serving as (literal) fodder to the star murderers? Why are any of them surprised/horrified at murders if this is a troll thing?

And on the finer points of socipathy/guilt: the capacity to feel guilt doesn't redeem a character automatically. In effect, Vriska has been using her guilt to feel better and the end result is more suffering she dishes out. Fifthfiend is using "socipath" in an unjudicious way; the problem is characters who are sociopaths are more pitiable than this.

I could go on and on and on witing this unreadable rant, but the point is this: I won't bother with the update when the site is back up. I'm not ragequitting the thread, and I don't mean to make it sound as though people's comments about the comic is what ruined it for me or anything like that: it's a big cluster of things in Homestuck itself that's been niggling at me for a while, and I just can't enjoy it anymore.

I mean Hermione says right there on the page that Harry Potter is the best and most excellent of wizards.

Well, he is.

Wizard does mean "angry teen," right?

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by Archbio

Fifthfiend is using "socipath" in an unjudicious way

Whoa what the fuck sycophants don't get to start disagreeing all over the place

What in the hell did I hire you for

Originally Posted by Archbio

Wizard does mean "angry teen," right?

I liked Harry so much more after he finally got pissed off at Dumbledore for being a jackass.