The Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[LordBalmung18]

Wow im gone for a few days and look what happens?

Anyway..someone asked so far back i cant remember what my specific disfunction was. I have multiple things, but the main things that interfere with my life as Aspbergers syndrome and MPD(Multiple personality disorder). It was only because of my little religous revelation that i have any degree of control over the latter.

And to be perfectly clear on that point, i am not taking any meds, im not engaged in therapy, im not in any kind of treatment for it period. I squashed it through willpower, and i gained that willpower through belief.

As for citing sources, How exactly am i supposed to relate personal experiences? They werent recorded, anyone who witnessed them has no interest in talking about it on a webcomic forum, and thus any value they have in this discussion is diminished cause i cant really prove any of it happened. I hope thats satisfactory. (If your wondering, i have some minor OCD too. I couldnt leave the damn questiosn unanswered >.<)

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by EA

But Sith, Chinese scientists, using Western equipment, a qigong master and a glass of water, have proved just that.

But that's not bending reality to your will just by thinking. That's thinking and using a natural consequence of your living body to effect change much like using an arm. Trust me I've taken a very traditional style of Karate for about 4 years now and I have had very powerful experiences with in my case Ki. Specifically during opening and closing of classes when we mediate for a few minutes. But also during breaking and during my last few promotions when I was forced to fight for about 20 minutes straight against 3 higher level brown belts and 2 black belts in succession. After the first 5 minutes of getting knocked on you ass every five seconds all you have left is Ki.

Originally Posted by ZAKtheGeek

I imagine people didn't feel like getting in the middle of our shitstorm.

At least I realized stopped and even apologized for it.

Originally Posted by ZAKtheGeek

Actually, the assumptions some people make in their arguments, sometimes without realizing it, are not necessarily as much a part of their "core beliefs" as the things we've been discussing are. It's the more tacked-on assumptions that often seem to accompany religious logical arguments that I aim to attack. Should we ever actually get back on track.

Sometimes they aren't but mostly they are. That's why they're so deeply hidden in the subconscious that people don't realize they are making them. This is especially true with religion the biggest assumption there being what we like to call faith.

[ZAKtheGeek]

Faith is just saying, "God (or insert other) exists." That's precisely why faith proves nothing: it assumes the conclusion we'd otherwise expect somebody to derive somehow. It's barely a logical argument at all, so it's not really what I'm talking about. I'm talking about *digs to start of this whole thing* things like infinite causal chains and creatorless universes.

How about instead of arguing about where we think this might lead, we stop, maybe end up with an argument from a lively soul, examine it, and see what happens?

[Elminster_Amaur]

But that's not bending reality to your will just by thinking. That's thinking and using a natural consequence of your living body to effect change much like using an arm.

Well, Sith, most of the authoritative voices in qigong agree that there is qi in everything in the Multiverse. So, if you can use qi to alter anything, and if that article is correct and distance isn't an issue, then isn't using qi to alter things just another way of stating "bending reality to your will"? Sure, it's not "just by thinking", but I don't agree that it's like using a limb. A limb is a physical extension of your body, whereas qi is a mental and/or spiritual extension of your will. Yes, it takes a lot of practice, and yes, it is a natural part of you. But, it's also a natural part of everything else. There is qi in the rocks, the trees, the animals, the "heavens" (I assume that means space), the sun, and the weather.

Now, I'm not saying that just anyone could alter reality with their will. It takes a LOT of hard work to be able to do anything other than keep yourself healthy with qi. The shaolin had a saying: It takes 3 years for a small success, and 10 for a great one. And NOBODY I know more than passingly would stick to some of the training programs for learning to do certain things with qi. Not only that, but, in order to gain real power, you must refrain from sex (men, women are exempt), since any ejaculation cuts your body's qi by 40% of what's remaining.

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by EA

Well, Sith, most of the authoritative voices in qigong agree that there is qi in everything in the Multiverse. So, if you can use qi to alter anything, and if that article is correct and distance isn't an issue, then isn't using qi to alter things just another way of stating "bending reality to your will"? Sure, it's not "just by thinking", but I don't agree that it's like using a limb. A limb is a physical extension of your body, whereas qi is a mental and/or spiritual extension of your will. Yes, it takes a lot of practice, and yes, it is a natural part of you. But, it's also a natural part of everything else. There is qi in the rocks, the trees, the animals, the "heavens" (I assume that means space), the sun, and the weather.

Its still not bending reality to your will. Bending reality to your will indicates changing the fundamental laws that govern reality. Think if it like this, Ki is like a pool of water. Everything is sitting in this pool of water and those with proper training can cause ripples in the water. They don't change anything else but the natural movements of the water. They can achieve great effects but they can't transcend the most basic rules of the system.

Bending reality to your will would entail suddenly deciding a certain physical law no longer applied. That or randomly creating matter or energy out of nowhere. Basically doing things that reality expressly forbids from happening.

[Elminster_Amaur]

Basically doing things that reality expressly forbids from happening.

Like, uh, how about stopping and restarting your own heart at will, and after days to months had passed? I don't know that anyone has reached that level recently, but I know that they (monks) practice(d) this in order to go on "spiritual journeys" to different realms of existance. (I'm glad we're away from the whole "logic" arguement, but there's not much discussion going on here)

Sidenote, to Sith: Do you only practice sitting meditation, or do you practice other forms of meditation? Did you know that sitting meditation is less useful to people with less experience directing their qi and quieting the mind? If you want, I can quote some of the Shaolin qigong exercises that I have gathered from various authors. I mean, I am always interested in hearing how different people practice martial arts and qigong, and am always willing to share. I've also just recieved a copy of Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming's book on the 8 Pieces of Brocade, so just PM me if you wish to discuss those subjects. (Don't want to put information out and get sued or anything)

[Sithdarth]

Originally Posted by EA

Like, uh, how about stopping and restarting your own heart at will, and after days to months had passed? I don't know that anyone has reached that level recently, but I know that they (monks) practice(d) this in order to go on "spiritual journeys" to different realms of existance. (I'm glad we're away from the whole "logic" arguement, but there's not much discussion going on here)

Again reality doesn't expressly forbid these things. They seem strange because everyone can't do them. Heck some of the crazy new theories in physics have been credited with adding plausibility to these things. If you ever have a long talk with a quantum mechanic or a string theorist you'll get all sorts of crazy shit out of them.

[ZAKtheGeek]

I think the provided examples count pretty well as "bending reality with will." I don't see why you'd have to totally shatter rules; just as long as you change something physical, outside of your brain, just by thinking. Okay, outside of your body.

Also I will probably write more later on totally unrelated things which I've been thinking a bit about.

[Sithdarth]

See you can't go with that definition or I could totally bend reality by using those new neural interface chips that they implant in the brain of paraplegics to allow them to move a mouse pointer. If you aren't doing something that reality says you can't then your working inside the rules. To use an Table top RPG analogy your twinking or power gaming. To actually be bending rules you'd have to be changing them outright or simply rewriting their meaning. Ki control doesn't do that. Its generally considered to be an actual form of energy that has all the physical properties of energy. Its just human minds can control how our bodies emit it to strange effects. Its about as reality bending as magnetokinesis or pyrokinesis, or any of the kinesis.

[ZAKtheGeek]

That wouldn't be thoughts changing anything, it would be the radio signal from the chip (I assume that's how it's done). Of course, if you were to run a wire that picks up an electrical signal in the brain and attach it to anything external, that would be the destruction of my definition. Until I clarify that it can't be the brain-contained physical manifestation of thought, but the thought itself.

It's a better definition, but it still probably doesn't apply here. Did I mention I don't know why I'm even talking about this?