Pokemon Umbral Discussion 33 again: Hijacked!

[Bard The 5th LW]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Oh.Oh AB, I think I love you even more.

DracXAB

OTP

[DanteFalcon]

Shows done. Gonna take the day to relax. Expect a post from me tomorrow.

[Dracorion]

I find myself extremely tempted to break off my deal with Geminex and reclaim my bid for leadership. It would totally fit with my new goal of furthering this RP's decent into anarchy and chaos.

But I mean, it's a deal. I couldn't.

Well, I could.

But I shouldn't.

Then again, you gotta commit to something. Might as well be chaos.

I really really shouldn't.

Nah, I'm not going to.

I'm serious! I won't do it!

Stop looking at me like that, Gem! I said I won't do it!

Okay, fine, I swear I won't do it. Happy now?

[Menarker]

Since AB announced he's making his post later on, I'll assume the plan has been finalized and I'll work on it.

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Also, what particular flaws keep Pierce from being the leader? You know, aside from being played by, well, me. I figure, it'd be nice knowing all of 'em so I can work on 'em.

Can I offer my insight? Although AB might have other ideas. AB, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Pierce doesn't exactly have "flaws" so much as "personality incompatibility" within PATCA's highly law oriented culture.

I see Pierce as the sort of guy who would be praised and acclaimed in newspapers as a mini-celebrity after performing some death-defying act of heroics. At the same time, he would be chewed out by his superiors for his death-defying stunts which probably break all sorts of rules and conducts as well being potentially risky for himself, the mission and his allies.

Rayleen is highly focused on her political career as much as she values the well-being of the world and the people under her command. She would very much rather choose someone who exemplified "leadership" in the sort of "lawful" and "correct" manner while still being a wholesome decent guy if possible. That person in question should not just seek law and order and peace as an end result, but also try to LIVE IT as much as possible.

Let's take Renny for example since he's the one who has been nominated several times (by Rayleen and AB). In spite of his age, he has demostrated talent and skills that is very commendable, although this is not unique to him as others have shown the same. However, the way he conducts himself is consistently in keeping with the lawful and decent manners by which Rayleen see as a good leader. He is respectable of the decisions of the higher-ups, doesn't engage in ego-stroking such as trashtalk, and keeps his focus on urgent matters (such as when he attended to Kurika nigh instantly when the combat was over, because he wouldn't know if they might be ambushed later on or attacked by the ruin generals who ended the fight). In his conducts with relatively untrusted recruits like Shannon, he was diplomatic and at least contributed to ensuring her continuing support.

Pierce, on the other hand, has noteworthy skills as well. However, his "behavior" shoots any chance of leadership in the foot because they are/seem rather chaotic in execution even if used to fulfill lawful/good means. That same chaos or "personal freedom" also shows in his behavior to speak his mind and act "inappropriately". Things like contributing to insulting Shannon when she was introduced as the new recruit as per her parole (which was a decision from higher up) to the point that Rachel had to repeatably attempt to defuse the situation, harrassing and provoking enemies or potential hostiles (defeated or otherwise) such as Discord or the Ruin Generals who ended the battle early (potentially sparking another fight when everyone was still freshly wounded and exhausted from the previous fight), or supposably your upcoming sidequest where Pierce runs off on his own which probably is a conduct violation or at least viewed upon very poorly as being reckless or something.

If PATCA was to end up being disbanded or follow a new code of operation, becoming more of a free-for-all vilgilante group (something more like the Star Wars Rebel Alliance) instead of a berucratic lawful system, Pierce would definately have a better chance of becoming leader. However, as things stand, Pierce being too eager to speak his mind and act with total freedom in chaotic and reckless fashion makes him less of a candidate for leadership in PATCA or Rayleen's eyes. He would be an EXCELLENT "grunt" just because he has skill and talent, but he lets his emotions run too freely, as opposed to Renny whose actions are strongly guided in by his personal philosophy of diplomacy and kindness and tactfulness to the point that it is personally innate to him.

"The most reliable proof of success is consistant behavior that leads to success."

Renny consistantly behaves in the same manner that is sure to keep his friends/allies safe and avoid needless strife. Pierce DOES have the skill and potential to become diplomatic, but he is too eager to serve his ego and bash the targets he dislike or try to prove how great he is, and thus does not consistantly show that he is leadership quality. While Renny's actions may not be the sort of "heroics" that would get him on the front page, the way he treats others and the way he conducts himself is closer to how Rayleen envisions someone who takes a more administrative role to be like. For a serious role like leader, where the pressure is intense, the lives of your subordinates are at stake, and where you are ultimately responsible for their successes and their failures, reliability is pretty key.

[Dracorion]

I contest your claim that Rayleen is focused on her political career.

I'm pretty sure if we tried to make a list of all the rules and protocols she's blatantly and more than willingly violated over the course of the RP we'd probably never finish.

And come on, Pierce is totally respectful of his superiors! He likes to speak his mind, sure. He's always going to. But he's not the kind of guy who stubbornly keeps to his opinions. He's more than capable of considering that he's wrong.

Also, he doesn't just beat up whoever looks to be the bad guys. Back in the mansion, he's the one who asked everyone to spare zombie Whitney and Wyatt if possible. He's the one that voiced the concern that Primal Exist may be innocent. And he did kinda sorta try to recruit Pokegeddon, but that was more like a half-taunt.

He has his fun, sure, but name one time he has ever put the team in danger. Everyone he ever taunted was already trying to kill them, except for Twiloch and Marionata. And as for those two, they did save the team, and Pierce knows that, even if he didn't like them stealing his win. He knew they wouldn't have exactly gotten all pissed and tried to kill everyone over his silly tantrum.

And Discord, well, he just doesn't like her. She's given no evidence of being anything other than a bitch. And he doesn't quite approve of her and Lucian's, ermm... profession. Rather hypocritical, I know, but he didn't particularly enjoy being a thief (except occassionally when things got really heated) and he left that life by choice and very much likes working for PATCA. And contrary to Discord and Lucian he's trying to redeem himself for what he did.

Admittedly, his treatment of the Shannon situation was wrong, but that's got nothing to do with her. He's just jealous of Renny.

Also, Pierce doesn't serve his ego. Ever. He's actually very self-deprecating. He only likes to have his fun.

As for running off during his sidequest, that is very very wrong and he's going to know that straight from the beginning, but he'll do it anyway. There's some stuff he wants to take care of without the team finding out, because he's ashamed of it, and damned if there's anything anyone can do to stop him, including the bad guys.

He'll be wrong about that, of course, but frankly when Pierce Hulks out he really does become the mindless Hulk. That's why it takes a lot to piss him off enough to get into that state. You'll see during his sidequest.

To sum up: yes, Pierce is far from perfect, but he's more than capable of getting past that. If someone gave him a leadership position right now, he'd put his happy-go-lucky'ing aside and step up to the plate, and stop taunting enemies. The other stuff, not so much. He's going to need some help with that.

[Menarker]

Well, AB himself said that Rayleen is focused on her career several discussion threads back. Not to the same extent as some power-mongers, but still rather focused on it.

I said Pierce was disrespectful of his superiors based on the Shannon thing. The higher ups decided that she would join the group and regardless of the real reason why Pierce behaved the way he did, he DID express distrust and dislike and effectively undermined the superior's intent. Mind you, normally Pierce is respectful. But think of a supervisor or higher up. Do most bosses instintively remember all the good things you done? No. Out of human nature, most of them recall the wrong things you have done, remember your demerits. It will take several instances of bucking up to prove that Pierce has grown up past that.

As for Pierce knowing that the Psychic and Dark ruin general wouldn't turn on the group, that's pretty bull. The group have no way of knowing whether the ruin generals were easy to anger, prideful and any of that sort of thing. Pierce BELIEVED that someone who took the effort to save them wouldn't then try to attack them, but it was still risky behavior, given the group's sorry injuried state against 2 rested ruin generals (and the group had no reason to trust any of them aside from Lexhur at the time).

You say that Pierce doesn't serve his ego but just wants to have "fun"? Fine fine. Rayleen might still think "fun" should be left on the sideline during a mission.

For your sidequest, I was just guessing based on the little I know. It's still "risky" and reckless to go by oneself, so Rayleen might think he lacked some sort of wisdom or whatever. Just brainstorming here.

Basically, think of it as an interview. "What behavior or traits or deeds have you consistantly shown that should prove to me that you are the sort of person that is ideal for a leader? Why should I make you leader now instead of someone else while waiting for you to prove your leadership quality at a lower level and work your way up?"

I said before that Pierce has the capability of being heroic and I already said that he had good traits. But Rayleen may not think of him as a leader because she hasn't SEEN those leadership traits or not consistantly. Yes, Pierce could easily buck up if he was offered the position, but anyone could claim that. Rayleen probably sees proof in Renny's behavior despite him not trying to be a leader. The sort who doesn't need to be in a grand position to buck up. All hypothetical thinking, of course.

Not saying that Renny SHOULD be leader, but just guessing AB's portrayal of Rayleen's perception.


EDIT: GAHHHHH! That RP thread is glitched too! It ate my post and did the same thing that happened in the last one! (The double post limit thing. I can still see people's post thankfully.)

AB! You need to make another RP thread to continue on! We have to ditch that one that existed before the downtime just like the previous discussion thread.

[Bard The 5th LW]

You guys just wait. The decision will become clear.

Rayleen: Good news everyone! I have decided who will be the new leader in my absence.
Pierce/Renny/Impact: *gets ready for promotion*
Rayleen: A good leader is said to have compassion. They put the pwople above their objectives, and strive for the greater good.
Pierce/Renny/Impact: *Really impatient*
Rayleen: So I have chosen Charlotte! Who embodies none of those.
Pierce/Renny/Impact: WHAT!
Rayleen: Yes, cold and efficient Charlotte.
Charlotte: Well, I do think of human life as expendable.

[Dracorion]

Ahem.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

"Demon, here." Rayleen reported. "We're making good progress on our end."
"Demon, you're fuckin' brutal." Harliette said. "Like that stiff over there. Did you have to kick him twice in the testicles before you twisted his neck a hundred-eighty degrees?"
"Well...I may have been a little angry."
"You keep saying that you hate Burkmont, but I didn't think it was this extreme. I want a story when we get back."
"Sure, we'll have a big slumber party or something."

This proves several points I'm making.

Well, yeah, Pierce believed Twiloch and Marionata wouldn't attack the team. It doesn't seem that wild a guess, really. You know, seeing as they did show up and save the team and were kinda sorta nice.

And yes, of course him running off half-cocked during his sidequest is a giant fuck up. Rayleen will know that and even Pierce knows that. But it's going to be somewhat understandable why.

You're shitting me about the RP thread, right?

EDIT: Yeah Menarker, I just posted there. You're wrong.

[Menarker]

No, remember the last discussion thread? After the downtime, we had several posts discussing our plans. Many hours later after several more posts, the glitch wiped out tons of posts that never came back.

I'm saying that thread did the exact "can't post twice in the same time frame" thing that it did to me and Bard the last time before the posts got deleted. I'd take notice of those syntomns pretty seriously. Better safe than sorry to make a new thread.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Actually the 'can't post twice' happened to me in a few threads. And it still posted. It just assumed I was double posting.

And I suppose I can make a new thread. Is that what you want Menarker? More Yaoi?