Ultimate Spider Man: Peter Parker is dead, long live Spider-Man

[Aerozord]

I do admit making him black and latino kind of screams "lets see how many minorities we can get with one character". Possible they went with this with the intention of showing that a character can be a minority without it defining them, of course forgetting thats been done already. Though I have trouble believing they didn't intentionally go in this with the goal of making him a minority character.

If that last line confuses you, alot of writers default to characters that are a reflection of themselves. I for example, unless I have a reason to do otherwise I go with a white male character cause its a background and existence I am knowledgeable in. I can write a character thats black, or a woman, or gay, but its all second hand knowledge so it takes abit more effort.

In other words I dont see this new Spider Man being created organically and at some point someone said "hey lets make him two minorities, that will be interesting"

[Kim]

This is another problem I have with this thinking.

People need a "reason" or a justification for any character that isn't a white, straight male, but they never, ever seem to expect the same justification for a character being a white, straight male.

It's bullshit. It continues to support the idea that white, straight male is the norm and to deviate from that needs an excuse, and I absolutely hate that and want less of that thinking in all forms of entertainment.

There are plenty of people that are black and latino. Expecting justification for them to get representation, or any other minority for that matter, is a bullshit double standard.

[Jagos]

Secondly, you're assuming that his minority status is the only thing which will define him and acting as though him being a minority at all has "unfortunate implications."

I already know he has yet to be given anything in terms of a character because we'll have to see with Ultimate Fallout. What I'm surprised about with the article is how they'll characterize him to make him a good one. So far, the easiest way seems to be by the use of two themes. Sexuality (which they're thinking about at the very least) and race. So until we get some characterization, I'd rather they left those two themes alone and allow the character to grow naturally. It's all in how they show him growing, and right now, it seems that they're using the wrong ideas to show his growth.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by NonCon

This is another problem I have with this thinking.

People need a "reason" or a justification for any character that isn't a white, straight male, but they never, ever seem to expect the same justification for a character being a white, straight male.

It's bullshit. It continues to support the idea that white, straight male is the norm and to deviate from that needs an excuse, and I absolutely hate that and want less of that thinking in all forms of entertainment.

There are plenty of people that are black and latino. Expecting justification for them to get representation, or any other minority for that matter, is a bullshit double standard.

you misread, I am not saying I default white straight male because its the norm, I default white straight male because I have a better understanding of a white straight male. And by justification, I mean the logical ones, like if a love interest character is male I'd make the protagonist female or gay (depending on my mood) without a second thought.

Though I make no claims I have a deep understanding of how, say a woman thinks. If I did I probably wouldn't be single. Its why I try to consult women on if my female characters are behaving realistically

[edit]I am saying I think the reason you see so many straight white males is because of this. Though sure there are many black and gay writers that do it because of societal pressures. Why you need a reason is simple, because there should be no stigma against it. There is nothing wrong with making a character thats a white straight male, so why shouldn't I?

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Jagos

HOW DARE THEY POINT OUT THAT HE'S NOT WHITE CLEARLY THAT WILL BE HIS ONLY TRAIT!

There are so many justifiable reasons for them to say not just, "Hey, there's a new Spiderman" but also "We're giving some minority representation" but you automatically jump to the idea that because they revealed this beforehand and the same single interview has been posted on all the sites that this will be his only trait.

[Overcast]

Originally Posted by NonCon

There've been several other versions of Spiderman, including a future Spiderman and a Spiderwoman that Peter was all, "Yeah, you can totes be a Spiderhero." These are just the ones I know. So the idea of Spiderman isn't even specific to Peter Parker, and the idea of someone being inspired by his death to take up the mantle is very believable. As for "contrived powers," keep in mind that we continue to accept radioactive spider as an origin story despite its inherent ridiculousness.

Valid, but awkward. Odd thing about Spiderwoman is depending on the writer she has barely a thing to do with Spiderman or is a clone of him. Shit gets confusing. Spidergirl was a genuine protege but ended up alternate universed. Future and past spiderpeople are usually considered alternate universes as well since they are meant to be period pieces. Most end up so distinctly their own that there is very little issue with them. But in this case we are talking about someone passing down the mantel, which of course brings me back to the origin.

It is that radioactive spider that really is the issue when it comes to it being contrived. This is the origin that we have made to Spidey's powers, even as science marched on we haven't changed it. What might seem contrived is if the person by some wondrous coincidence is getting those spider-powers soon after Peter's death. Shaping a protege usually helps void this, like with Spidergirl. They need to think up a way to make this seem natural, my bet is he is a mutant and always had these abilities, they just started cropping up now.

Originally Posted by NonCon

"It's okay they're racist because they're just upset people are okay with Peter Parker being replaced."? Pffffffffft.

It isn't okay for them to be racist. But it isn't respectful to claim that a change of race is a much better thing. Superiority on either side is wrong.

[Jagos]

Non, your quote is absolutely wrong.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by NonCon

"It's okay they're racist because they're just upset people are okay with Peter Parker being replaced."? Pffffffffft.

"Despite what you're saying about the reasoning behind their belief and that they have other reasons that aren't racially charged they're still all racists because the situation involves race."

~BoThSiDeZ~

Whelp, here we go again.
There have been other Spider-man characters in different times, places and circumstances, but it's a little different than instances like the Scarlet Spider and Spider-Girl. We're talking about Peter being killed off and entirely replaced by a new character. In my knowledge this hasn't happened to in Spider-man yet. Or even in any other story when the character that was so iconic as Peter Parker.

That's the significance to the situation in my eyes. With the Flash and numerous other cases where the hero was replaced, the Hero was what was important to the story. Flash and Green Lantern as personas were the stars of the show. But with the case of Spider-Man the thing that keeps people reading and tuning in is Peter Motherfucking Parker.

Truth be told ultimately I don't care much for Ultimate marvel anymore, but I know for a damn fact my friend was pissy about this whole thing before they ever revealed who the new Spider-Man was and I know he's not the only one.
At that, I think the reason this has become a thing is because a few weeks ago when you said "Man I don't want this new Spider-man around. I liked Peter Parker." You were fine. But now it's a racist comment even if your reasons have absolutely fuckall to do with the new character and everything to do with how his death happened, why it happened and how they're handling the transition, which as Overcast said has been to paint the death of Peter as an improvement to the story. Which for many people is an insult.

[Kim]

It isn't okay for them to be racist. But it isn't respectful to claim that a change of race is a much better thing. Superiority on either side is wrong.

Minority representation by a well-known hero is a much better thing, because that needs to happen and should have been happening long ago. It's not, "Spiderman is better because he's not white" and I don't think I've seen ANYONE claim that was the case. It's, "Finally, some minority representation in comics." Which is more than reasonable and characterizing as anything but is ludicrous.

[Nikose Tyris]

I'm pretty much holding off on everything until I see if they give him a unique origin story for his powers, good writing and make him unique; Once a little while passes we'll be able to see that pretty clearly and I'll probably wind up disliking him for reasons Karesh listed.