Star War's Big Gay Planet

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Jedi have faith in the force, they worship the force, they have ritualistic practices related to the force, they have an institutional system of attitudes and beliefs about what the force is and how to interact with it.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

This is why I always said no matter how much evidence there is of divinity you will always have atheists because look at this. You have people arguing that a fictional religion is wrong, despite the people that came up with it telling you the religion is correct. In the Star Wars universe the force, light side dark side, ect is simple fact not speculation.

There's a difference between spirituality and religion, though.

It's entirely possible that the Sith and Jedi are spiritually correct insofar as their belief in the Force as mystical, manipulable energy is justified, but wrong in the subsequent ideologies deriving from this belief.

The comparable real-world analogy would be if the Abrahamic religions were correct in their belief in Yahweh / God / Allah, but if the Bible and the Torah and the Koran completely misrepresented what God was actually trying to tell us.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I kinda feel like Aero is having a different conversation.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

It's entirely possible that the Sith and Jedi are spiritually correct insofar as their belief in the Force as mystical, manipulable energy is justified, but wrong in the subsequent ideologies deriving from this belief.

yes except for two things.

First is that they aren't differing ideologies. The sith are under no delusion that they are good and altruistic. They have personal goals and place them above the welfare of others. Which is connected to the second point.

Lucas has said, dark side is evil, light side is good. There is no middle ground, no compromise, just a black and white choice in what your ultimate goal is.

However both sides agree that the other exists and is correct. They kill each other because their goals are opposed. Not because they disagree on what the force is or how it works, they completely agree on those points.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Lucas is a nitwit.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

Light side was all about self sacrificing altruism. Jedi are to give up everything and serve others. Sucks for them but having super powered police ideally devoid of self interest is a nice thing to have for everyone else.

nah light side is pretty fucked

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

yes except for two things.

First is that they aren't differing ideologies. The sith are under no delusion that they are good and altruistic. They have personal goals and place them above the welfare of others. Which is connected to the second point.

Lucas has said, dark side is evil, light side is good. There is no middle ground, no compromise, just a black and white choice in what your ultimate goal is.

However both sides agree that the other exists and is correct. They kill each other because their goals are opposed. Not because they disagree on what the force is or how it works, they completely agree on those points.

I'd agree with you if you:

A: Removed the Extended Universe from canon, and
B: Removed the prequels from canon.

As much as I'd like for B to be possible, it isn't. Before the prequel movies were released, though, it was possible to argue based on the original trilogy alone that Light Side was unequivocally Good. Once Lucas signed off on the prequels, that position becomes much harder to defend given how the Jedi were handled in those films.

Actually, fleshing out the Jedi as Not As Great An Institution As You'd Hope was one of the very few things the prequels got right. It made for a much more complex and morally ambiguous storyline. At least it had the potential to before Lucas fucked everything up with terrible dialogue and terrible plot twists and a godawful romance and a stupid explanation for the Clone Wars.

[Locke cole]

One thing that always bemuses me is Tarkin talking to Vader about his "sad devotion to that ancient religion". Unless the dude's younger than Luke, he has to have been around for the whole "Jedi council as a major power" setup.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Force is midichlorians- it is a pure biological process. Take away all the bullshit Jedi rules and you'll be able to like force-choke planets and shit. Guaranteed.

Also the light side is all about stoically accepting the status quo- ie conservatism. If you think the light side is good, go check yourself into a prison because you are a criminal fuck.


Tarkin is fantastic- science and engineering does far more than the force in the star wars films (which does actually fuck all- it chokes a few people but laser guns do that better and can blow up planets, it picks shit up shitter than tractor beams, it contacts across the universe shitter than radio) he is the voice of the audience raging against this old papist extermist who has somehow gained power.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Locke cole

One thing that always bemuses me is Tarkin talking to Vader about his "sad devotion to that ancient religion". Unless the dude's younger than Luke, he has to have been around for the whole "Jedi council as a major power" setup.

Given what an easy time autocracies have at redefining things, it wouldn't shock if me if the Emperor had utilized propaganda to fool the common folks into assuming at the 'Jedi Council' weren't really 'Jedis' at all.

Given how the prequels redefined Jedis and the use of lightsabers anyway, it's possible that the Emperor was just like, the Jedis were exceptionally talented swordsmen with glowing swords, but they had no connection to the Force because that was all made up religious bullocks to keep the masses in line.
...And, given how secretive the Jedi Council were about everything except their lightsaber dependency most would probably buy it.