The NP member comic discussion thread!

[Melfice]

The fact is that most of us did what you did.
We edited sprites. Some more extensively than others, but they're still edits. (With some choice sprites that WERE actually originals)

And the comic archive is so closely attached to NPF that it really doesn't matter too much.
Besides, the NPF Comic Archive doesn't even show up on first page Google search, so I highly doubt anybody who isn't explicitly looking for it would look further than that.

In the end, it isn't so much singling you out as the bad guy, it's more a general "eh, don't see the point"-feeling from my side. I DO assume that's why you posted that, as an answer to my little comic. *snrk* If you want to call it that.

In the ultimate end... who are we to claim these sprites anyhow, edits or no?

[Loyal]

Well, seeing as you're here, perhaps we can straighten a few things out.

Originally Posted by Frogman

Untill that point tho people who come across that comic who aren't from NPF will think, wow this guy is a great spriter, when the sprite was made by someone else.

Let's be serious here:

1) The probability of someone coming across such a comic WITHOUT being introduced to the NPF (and all that implies) is virtually nil.

2) In the event that someone from the NPF introduces the comic to an outsider, the conversation will probably go like this (unless the person does not care, in which case there likely wouldn't be any issue at all:

-Joe Normal: Wow, great comic. Did you make all these?
-NPFer: No, just the comic itself, and these ones here *points to own sprites*. The rest were made by the other guys where I posted this.

Unless you're suggesting that those of us here would actually claim credit for fellow NPFer's work? I think I should feel insulted.

This is the internet we're talking about, not only NPFers go to that site.

We're talking about this site here, right? Because again, the likelihood of someone going to that site without first knowing what the NPF is (and all that implies) is... low.

All I want is some kind of recognition when the comic is in the world wide arena, if it was on NPF forum or on UJ I wouldn't care in the slightest, but seeing as the comic site is a seperate entity from NPF it's self, anyone can go there and anyone can see it and anyone can give credit to anyone else.

As Melfice said, while I doubt any of us deliberately want to begrudge you your credit, it's hard to see the point when we're still dealing with a level of net-wide recognition that boils down to "what happens in NPF stays in the NPF, because nobody else will care enough to listen (much less actively seek it out) anyway."

[TDK]

Andy, man. I know how you feel, someone tried to take credit for my sprites once (Not here, on deviantart) and it pissed me off to no end. Still, I just stepped in, told him off, and reported him.

Just think of it this way. If someone would take credit for sprites that weren't their's in the first place, they aren't going to not do so just because it says "Don't use without giving credit" or some such. A burglar wouldn't stop because the house had a sign that said "No stealing!". If something is against the rules, reminding people of that isn't going to help a whole lot, in 99% of cases they are already aware they are breaking the rules.

[Melfice]

But let's turn that even further up.
At what point did WE ask the creators of the base-sprites that we could use them and pass them as our own?

Yes, we're crediting the owners, but that makes no difference.
We're using somebody elses creations for our own uses without actually asking permission.

[TDK]

Its not like we're using them for profit. Falls under Fair Use, does it not?

[RickZarber]

First off, I should say that I never meant to make this into a whole big thing by bringing it up over here, and certainly I didn't mean to make Andy out to be the villain. While Andy is adamant, he's never been unreasonable in his request, and we worked together to find a mutually agreeable solution for the NPF Archive.

I still intend to create a sort of rolling or maybe animated credit thing for all the sprites ever that we can stick down at the bottom of the site so that it'll appear on every page (which, I think, should solve the problem). It's just a matter of finding the time to make it.

[Frogman]

Wrote something else here originally... pleading my case, but theres no point really. I'm not a bad guy, I'm not unreasonable. All I want is fair due.

Whats happened has happened, whats been said has been said and cannot be unsaid. I'm glad that we can come to an agreement on the scrolling credit. As I said my offer to do that for you is still out there. Chat more in private.

Another thing which has come to mind, is that I will make a sprites thread on NPF, and there I will place a selection of my sprites there. Should anyone want me to make or edit sprrites for them I'm glad to do it. That said, who can blame me for wanting to be credited for the effort I put into making those sprites?

If that is how you feel, then hell I may aswell just use any sprites or artworks of yours that are derivitive, and use them as I please. However I see myself getting opposition from that too. The fact stands that here, I'm always going to be wrong, because I am an outsider.

[Demon with a Glass Hand]

Not to split hairs or anything, but I think we've all pretty much figured out that the traitor in JAQ is Frogman. So, in all actuality, Rick is making him out to be the bad guy.

Also, I'd like to point out, that this whole sprite-ownership issue wouldn't be an issue if we were all just writing our comics. Can't we just do that? It's a much more efficient way of doing it and we wouldn't have to give credit to the people whose sprites we use.

I mean, Rick hasn't made a new comic in a while but in that amount of time countless people have written countless "comics" that were, frankly, too long and that no one read.

Quantity, people, over quality.

And, it's not like I'm completely against, Rick. He's contributed plenty with his "comics." He pointed out that Frogman is the badguy and that's a service to us all.

As a father of three, I rely completely, and singularily on what Microsoft tells me I should talk like around my children.

[Frogman]

Originally Posted by Demon with a Glass Hand

Not to split hairs or anything, but I think we've all pretty much figured out that the traitor in JAQ is Frogman. So, in all actuality, Rick is making him out to be the bad guy.

Also, I'd like to point out, that this whole sprite-ownership issue wouldn't be an issue if we were all just writing our comics. Can't we just do that? It's a much more efficient way of doing it and we wouldn't have to give credit to the people whose sprites we use.

I mean, Rick hasn't made a new comic in a while but in that amount of time countless people have written countless "comics" that were, frankly, too long and that no one read.

Quantity, people, over quality.

And, it's not like I'm completely against, Rick. He's contributed plenty with his "comics." He pointed out that Frogman is the badguy and that's a service to us all.

As a father of three, I rely completely, and singularily on what Microsoft tells me I should talk like around my children.

Hey Ross, where do you come off bad mouthing me?
Those are some pretty harsh and ill chosen word there. Traitor? How the hell am I a traitor? Wouldn't I acctually have to be on side with the comic in the first place to have stabbed them in the back?

Pointing out that I am a bad guy is a service to you all? Who the hell do you think you are?

[TDK]

Demon, that did seem a little harsh. Andy just wants credit for his work, and Rick has agreed to give it.

Really, I don't think we want to start writing stories instead of making comics. What would be the point of making sprites, then? I'm not terribly sure what you are implying, as you seem to contradict yourself a couple times. What exactly is the point of your last statement?

Anyway; I think the argument is done, we should all just walk away before any more feelings are hurt.

Edit:...Should I just stay out of this?