Boycott Atlus

[Nikose Tyris]

Bells, just to confirm: You are in a thread, about transgender people being treated like shit, explaining to minimum two trans individuals, that they should not be offended/angry by this.

Because that is pretty much exactly the kind of privledged self-centered bullshit that is the source of the god damn problem.

Let's just avoid all the super fun catchphrases and labels for that kind of arguement, (like mansplaining/straightsplaining/dismissal) and just say it blatantly: That's an asshole arguement, stop making blatantly asshole arguements.

[Ryong]

Woah threadsplosion, this is what I get for going to sleep.

Just to explain my earlier point:

Yes, male gaze is a thing, it isn't a thing every single heterosexual male does at every single woman he sees nor does it mean he'll feel like playing a game just because it features tits bouncing around or something like that. Yes there are people like that and it is unfortunate that a lot of game artists seem to be like that or at least believe that there are more people who pick their games based on this than on actual content.

TL;DR a lot of men will go watch porn if they want to watch porn, not play a game that has revealing outfits.

[Nikose Tyris]

Originally Posted by Ryong

Yes, male gaze is a thing, it isn't a thing every single heterosexual male does at every single woman he sees nor does it mean he'll feel like playing a game just because it features tits bouncing around or something like that. Yes there are people like that and it is unfortunate that a lot of game artists seem to be like that or at least believe that there are more people who pick their games based on this than on actual content.

My issue with it is the creation of ridiculous stereotypes and pushing negative connotations on women, with games created to target male gaze. Especially considering the games market is going to reach individuals still maturing in their recognition of women, and their right to be an equal person.

Like, the following:

Originally Posted by Eschergirls

I guess she’s a princess, I mean she is wearing a crown, but I always thought modesty was a quintessential princess quality. Hunks of metal glued to your nipples and that physics defying thong/belt/thing don’t count. That thong doesn’t even have straps, so I guess it’s either attached to the loose hanging belt, or is somehow just hidden perfectly underneath it.

I’m no artist or anatomy expert, but those hips look huuuuuge. How does that happen? Talk about a “baby shelf.” Small children could just sit on her hipbones and ride around with needing to even hold on. The arm holding the sword also looks wonky to me.

Speaking of the sword, it’s one and a half times her height, and probably three times her weight.

The stance is what kills me though. She doesn’t look like the bad ass heroine of a hack n’ slash game that she’s supposed to be, but she appears to be fleeing. Fleeing quickly in fright or possibly disgust. This image appears on the cover of the game, and was the basis for the figure that came out before the game was released.

Like, what about this is a realistic, positive portrayal of a hero? What's this selling to the young ladies who haven't solidified their own body image?

You're not terribly wrong in your view, Ryong, but you're dismissing something that is a legitimate issue as being something we need to accept, instead of something we need to push to change. Because Lydia is the kind of heroine we need, not... that thing.

[Ryong]

Naw yeah, I agree with what you say, it IS pushing bad things, I never denied that. It's just that this shouldn't be generalized as a thing all heterosexual men do.

Also, on the cover art: Apparently Atlus USA tried to do some tiny changes to that drawing when they made the USA cover art. Interestingly enough, the JP cover art uses an entirely different drawing that shows more characters.

So Atlus USA wanted to focus on pandering to male gaze...But felt it was too much and added an inch of cloth to her hip and gave her breasts a reduction. That's...That doesn't work very well.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

That's not a woman anyway. It's some kind of weird insect alien pretending to be a human woman. Just look at those hips. What the fuck?

That said. The issues are definitely there in P3 and P4, as great as they are otherwise. As for Catherine, I can't tell, I haven't seen the objectionable scene in my playthrough and I avoid reading about it because I don't like spoilers. I hope Atlus moves into a better direction. I doubt just boycotting will do any good, though, unless Atlus itself is made aware of it. Otherwise they'll just see it as a decline in interest and stop publishing in the US and Europe. I'd suggest a letter campaign or something, no idea how successful these usually are but it just seems like the first best option.

[Nikose Tyris]

The point of the boycott and it's web prescence is to make Atlus aware; I'm assuming that Liz has full intention of creating a letter campaign once she gets this off the ground.

There's also the communications with the publishers via the forum that Liz attempted, which failed in some pretty shitacular ways.

tl;dr support this it will probably become a letter campaign anyway.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

I have no intention of not supporting this, I have followed Liz' last attempt at Atlus Forums to some extent. She was treated as a pest more than anything (even though she was one of the very few who remained civil), got trolled and then banned, more or less for defending herself, though the mod's reasoning was more like "don't call for a boycott on our own site har" Which I guess sounds reasonable if you're a businessperson.

[Drownball-Champ]

OK. First, you need more examples. One cover, one image of Naoto, and one beached transgender scene does not an argument make. Currently your argument is weak and is not to be respected, where are these other supporting arguments that tell me "Atlus is evil". You shouldn't have bothered to even create it with such a small amount.

Second, you will never see complete freedom from jokes for the LGBT community. Blacks haven't, Mexicans haven't, Asians haven't, midgets haven't, etc.

Third, this isn't helping your cause. You want to be treated as an equal? Stop throwing a shit-fit whenever you are portrayed negatively. You can't be seen as an equal if people are tiptoeing around you.

[EDIT] Forgot to touch on this part: I agree against the cover. Stuff like that doesn't belong on cover art. I'm fine with it being in-game, to a point (that "outfit" is ridiculous), but children shouldn't be able to see that when looking at the game section. It is unacceptable, but extends beyond Atlus.

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by Drownball-Champ

OK. First, you need more examples. One cover, one image of Naoto, and one beached transgender scene does not an argument make. Currently your argument is weak and is not to be respected, where are these other supporting arguments that tell me "Atlus is evil". You shouldn't have bothered to even create it with such a small amount.

Second, you will never see complete freedom from jokes for the LGBT community. Blacks haven't, Mexicans haven't, Asians haven't, midgets haven't, etc.

Third, this isn't helping your cause. You want to be treated as an equal? Stop throwing a shit-fit whenever you are portrayed negatively. You can't be seen as an equal if people are tiptoeing around you.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Drownball-Champ

Second, you will never see complete freedom from jokes for the LGBT community. Blacks haven't, Mexicans haven't, Asians haven't, midgets haven't, etc.

Right, that's the attitude to have. You'll always be belittled, just accept it! It's your fault for not fulfilling bigotted socionormal standards.