Another Big Big Thread of Religious Discussion

[Serenity]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

You're assuming that's why these people join the church in the first place.

Well, there are basically two possibilities: either a) they have a tendency to join the church because they're pedophiles, or b) being part of the church has a tendency to make you into a pedophile.

I'm guessing that it's the former, not the latter, given that there would have to be a mechanism within the church which created pedophiles at a significantly higher rate than the outside world.

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

Also, I go to church. I still lie, cheat, masturbate... The Bible never says that God will make you able to not sin by joining the church.

Okay, I was going to point out how Christianity != bible and all that rot, but I can't, because something you just said jumped out at me.

Masturbation is a sin?

[Ryanderman]

Masturbation is a sin?

The traditional view is yes, it is. But the view based solely on scriptures is... maybe? The act itself probably isn't a sin, but the thoughts that accompany it, those are.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I was just pointing out how I still do bad, immoral things even though I attend church.

Also, implying that there are more pedophiles in the church than the rest of the world is just bullshit. Take the amount of priests that have been arrested on pedophilia charges, then take the amount of felons taken in on the same counts who came from outside of church.

And let's go a little further. Take all of the priests who have been covered by the media for being arrested for pedophilia, then count how many priests make up the entirety of the Catholic church. You're claim that joining the church incites pedophilia is completely unfounded.

Okay, I was going to point out how Christianity != bible and all that rot,

That's an invalid generalization. The Lutheran church I go to, as far as I've gone to research it, seems to hold the most true to the Bible. And I haven't heard of a Lutheran pedophile pastor yet (I may be wrong, I just haven't heard any stories), so just hold off on accusing the entire Christian populace of bringing people to pedophilia.

[TheSpacePope]

And let's go a little further. Take all of the priests who have been covered by the media for being arrested for pedophilia, then count how many priests make up the entirety of the Catholic church. You're claim that joining the church incites pedophilia is completely unfounded

Gonna have to agree with Bob there. The media puts a microscope to sex scandals in the church, while others get a cursory glance. The media would have us believe that the priest in the church down the street is a child molester and then the houses go.
murderer
rapist
serial killer
child predator
rapist
your house
rapist
serial killer

When in fact, the actual number of the people committing these crimes is very low.

I was just pointing out how I still do bad, immoral things even though I attend church.

Consider this a plennerary indulgence from me to you Bob.

[Serenity]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

I was just pointing out how I still do bad, immoral things even though I attend church.

Also, implying that there are more pedophiles in the church than the rest of the world is just bullshit. Take the amount of priests that have been arrested on pedophilia charges, then take the amount of felons taken in on the same counts who came from outside of church.

And let's go a little further. Take all of the priests who have been covered by the media for being arrested for pedophilia, then count how many priests make up the entirety of the Catholic church. You're claim that joining the church incites pedophilia is completely unfounded.

a) I never claimed that it incites pedophila (I claimed pedophilia incites priesthood). In fact, as I recall, you said this:

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

I think that since Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry, this gives rise to even more temptation than the average person confronts per day. And in certain places they are exposed to children all day. Not that I'm saying priests are more likely to become pedophiles than anyone else, I'm just pointing out a possible cause for the rise in pedos in the church.

Which is far closer to saying "being a priest causes you to be a pedophile" than what I said.
b) I notice that you didn't call out the following post:

Originally Posted by I_Like_Swordchucks

You're getting it backwards. Its a closer analogy to "90% of pedophiles are priests". Its not saying priests have a tendency to be pedophiles, its saying pedophiles seem to have a tendency to be priests. Its a mix-up in cause and effect.

[ZAKtheGeek]

"NO HISTORICAL EVIDENCE OF JESUS." Would somebody with good knowledge of relevant history like to point out any biases, mistakes and/or conspicuous omissions in this little piece?

[POS Industries]

Well, it is an article on an openly biased website which only has one cited source.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I had to weed through a lot of bullshit to find these two articles. Kind of a long read, but I can't find much of a problem with them.

http://www.probe.org/content/view/18/77/
http://www.leaderu.com/truth/1truth22.html

[Magus]

Wait, are they trying to say there wasn't SOMEBODY named Jesus or somebody along those lines who was probably crucified by the Roman authorities? I mean, it's kind of hard to have an effect like the past 2000 years without SOME sort of cause, and it seems like the martyrdom of somebody a huge amount of people considered a prophet would be the most likely culprit. I'm not saying you have to believe he was a deity in any way, shape, or form, but it seems pretty obvious he existed.

Wasn't Pontius Pilate a real guy, anyway? It'd be kind've hard for Paul to show up in Rome and say that Jesus had been crucified under the direction of a Roman official who didn't even exist. I mean, it seems fairly well documented that Jesus existed and was killed. It's all the miracles and such that would be debatable.

[russianreversal]

Yes, if you don't believe that god walked on the earth in human form, that's one thing, but if you deny there was the actual guy Jesus of Nazareth, you're deluding yourself.

There is not a single third party historical witness for confirmation, and not one single mention of a god walking the earth in any of the volumes of the combined work from the great writers of the period.

Second part first, Most people didn't believe Jesus was a god, and even the ones that did were shushed by the Jewish authorities, so you wouldn't find that many references to him as god on earth, except among his followers.
First part: I just found an interesting site, and plan to back it up with other sources, but here it is: http://www.brianhebert.org/2007/03/h...-to-jesus.html

In particular, I find the quote by Tacitus most interesting, because he was one of the authors that the challenging site said did not write anything about Jesus. Hmmmmm... Be back with more.

Oh: here we go, this backs up Tacitus and adds a few of it's own. The bible is a pretty remarkable piece of work. What it may lack in the believability factor based on miracles, it makes up for in archaeological confirmation. If you want to find fault with the bible, it's accuracy record is not the place to start, in the same way that if you want to find fault with evolution, saying that things don't change is the wrong place to begin.