Homesuck: Vriska Rising - Page 872

Marc v4.0 · 11-02-2011, 06:48 PM

It seems more likely that He wasn't LE until he Was.

Mr.Bookworm · 11-02-2011, 06:59 PM

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IN HOMESTUCK HISTORY

Scratch/LE.

Masturbation or sex?

**Revising Ocelot** · 11-02-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm

MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IN HOMESTUCK HISTORY

Scratch/LE.

Masturbation or sex?

Arcanum · 11-02-2011, 07:43 PM

Heh. So the magic white cue-ball was a seed for Doc Scratch, who was in turn a seed for Lord English. But now I'm curious: Is the Lord English we see the one and only Lord English, or is he simply the Lord English of the Alternia Universe.

What I mean is, we're told LE is methodical in his destruction of Universes, moving through them one at a time, but he only enters a Universe at its death. So now we know he enters the Alternian Universe by growing out of Doc Scratch (I'm trying to think of a way to describe what happened, and that seems the best so far). But are we witnessing the birth of Lord English? Is this his beginning? Is Alternia the very first universe he destroys?

Or does he have a different form for every universe he enters, depending on the First Guardian he incubates in? The magic white cue-ball seems to be an essential part, being the seed of LE's being. Doc Scratch was made from the cue-ball, the First Guardian genetic key, and Lil Cal. My guess is, the cue-ball is the mind, the First Guardian genetic key is his power (allows him access to the Green Sun), and the third is a variable that defines his body.

So my crazy theory is this (I feel like I'm rambling, but whatever): we're only seeing one form of Lord English, one who's physical body (and maybe to some extent his mentality in this instance) is derived from Lil Cal. So that if something other than Lil Cal was used in the creation of a Doc Scratch-like First Guardian (i.e. a First Guardian incubating LE), he would resemble that other thing.

Okay that's enough rambling for now.

Bard The 5th LW · 11-02-2011, 07:46 PM

I'm pretty sure Scratch says he has existed in several Universes, and Jade did have a cueball.

So my theory is that every universe is set up to have Doc Scratch appear in some way. Otherwise, why would he senmd a cueball over to the human universe. Cueball + Something else (Cal in Alternia's case). Any universe with Scratch is destined to have an English. In fact, I wouldn't be too shocked if the scratched Earth had a green moon hovering around it. Of course, we just have to wait and see.

**Revising Ocelot** · 11-02-2011, 07:54 PM

Well, who would have to die for LE to be summoned from the destruction of the kidverse? Jade? Bec Noir and PM?

And then he'd unleash the Vast... Meow.

Arcanum · 11-02-2011, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard The 5th LW

I'm pretty sure Scratch says he has existed in several Universes, and Jade did have a cueball.

So my theory is that every universe is set up to have Doc Scratch appear in some way. Otherwise, why would he senmd a cueball over to the human universe. Cueball + Something else (Cal in Alternia's case). Any universe with Scratch is destined to have an English. In fact, I wouldn't be too shocked if the scratched Earth had a green moon hovering around it. Of course, we just have to wait and see.

I don't think that every Universe is slated for destruction by Lord English though. The cue-balls were/are scattered like seeds (which is exactly what they are, Doc Scratch even said so I believe) across the Universes. Some of these seeds might grow (and help create an instance of Doc Scratch) and some of them might sit idle, bearing no fruit. And while I agree every universe with a Doc Scratch is destined to have a Lord English, I don't think every universe is destined to have a Doc Scratch.

But anyway, the whole point of my rambling post was to raise the idea that just as parts of Doc Scratch's personality and physical appearance are drawn from what spawned him (in this case Lil Cal), will Lord English's appearance and personality be affected the same way.

I personally believe that yes, his appearance and personality will be slightly different in every universe. And if that's true, and Lord English is trapped in the universe he is spawned in, and the only way he moves between universes is by being spawned from a Doc Scratch-like First Guardian, then the Lord English we just saw won't be the one that the Kids and Trolls end up facing. In fact, if all that is true, the only way to really beat Lord English is to destroy all of the cue-balls.

But yeah, if the post-scratch Kidsverse has a Cue-ball Guardian I won't be surprised either.

Anyway, Bard, stop indulging my theories and send me that Trollslum PM you slacker :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolving Ocelot

Well, who would have to die for LE to be summoned from the destruction of the kidverse? Jade? Bec Noir and PM?

And then he'd unleash the Vast... Meow.

None of those were created through ectobiology with a cue ball though, which is the seed for a Doc Scratch-like First Guardian, which is the seed for Lord English. The pre-scratch Kidverse doesn't have a Lord English. Post-Scratch kidverse might be a different story.

POS Industries · 11-02-2011, 09:17 PM

I don't think it's anything so broad, or particularly inherent to the normal elements of the game. The Magic Cue Balls simply belonged to Doc Scratch and may have very well even been created by him, and were a necessary engine to the self-fulfilling paradox of his creation. One could have simply been brought to Earth by the Condesce, seeing as the one Jade owned was a gift from Grandpa. The Condesce, as well, could have been responsible for effectively "programming" the MEOW code into Rose's subconscious via Jaspers, which then results in the events leading to Bec's creation, which was necessary to lead to the creation of the Green Sun, which itself was necessary to create everything that created it, as after all a non-corrupt first guardian with a higher intellect than a dog would have probably facilitated a completely normal session.

We also know that the trolls' ancestors were only unable to complete their session due to a glitch in the game's programming uncommon to the majority of sessions, which is the initial source of the events leading to LE coming into existence. The new session resulting from the glitch results in a universe designed to aid in the completion of this goal, which itself leaves the first session in the new universe's game unwinnable and requiring yet another scratch.

Conceivably, this results in the reset universe being completely free of any influence of LE, since there's nothing more he needs from it, and it succeeds in creating the next universe in the cycle unhindered until the next time the glitch shows up in another session down the road.

Of course, it's also worth noting that every universe has a first guardian as per the parameters of the game and that apparently all first guardians derive their power from the Green Sun. However, as the Green Sun exists outside of normal time in space in the Furthest Ring and the Furthest Ring exists outside of all universes, it also seems unlikely that a Green Sun needs to be created every time LE comes into existence. In fact, it seems more likely that every first guardian is powered by the very Green Sun created by the kids' session, which is itself pretty much par for the course regarding this story's circuitous time fuckery.

BitVyper · 11-03-2011, 02:56 AM

Yeah, I wouldn't expect the Green Sun to have to be created more than just this once. That would be weird, and not really fitting with what Doc Scratch said; that the kids' session is irregular even for one influenced by him.

Anyway, this looks pretty rad.

Arcanum · 11-03-2011, 03:04 AM

Where are you guys getting the idea of the green sun being created twice? Because I never even hinted at anything like that (at least I don't think I did).

11-02-2011, 06:48 PM	#8711
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	It seems more likely that He wasn't LE until he Was. __________________

11-02-2011, 07:54 PM	#8716
Revising Ocelot Douchebag Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Probably somewhere in England. Posts: 1,897	Well, who would have to die for LE to be summoned from the destruction of the kidverse? Jade? Bec Noir and PM? And then he'd unleash the Vast... Meow. __________________ magic sucks

11-02-2011, 09:17 PM	#8718
POS Industries Argus Agony Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Gotta go fishing! Posts: 10,483	I don't think it's anything so broad, or particularly inherent to the normal elements of the game. The Magic Cue Balls simply belonged to Doc Scratch and may have very well even been created by him, and were a necessary engine to the self-fulfilling paradox of his creation. One could have simply been brought to Earth by the Condesce, seeing as the one Jade owned was a gift from Grandpa. The Condesce, as well, could have been responsible for effectively "programming" the MEOW code into Rose's subconscious via Jaspers, which then results in the events leading to Bec's creation, which was necessary to lead to the creation of the Green Sun, which itself was necessary to create everything that created it, as after all a non-corrupt first guardian with a higher intellect than a dog would have probably facilitated a completely normal session. We also know that the trolls' ancestors were only unable to complete their session due to a glitch in the game's programming uncommon to the majority of sessions, which is the initial source of the events leading to LE coming into existence. The new session resulting from the glitch results in a universe designed to aid in the completion of this goal, which itself leaves the first session in the new universe's game unwinnable and requiring yet another scratch. Conceivably, this results in the reset universe being completely free of any influence of LE, since there's nothing more he needs from it, and it succeeds in creating the next universe in the cycle unhindered until the next time the glitch shows up in another session down the road. Of course, it's also worth noting that every universe has a first guardian as per the parameters of the game and that apparently all first guardians derive their power from the Green Sun. However, as the Green Sun exists outside of normal time in space in the Furthest Ring and the Furthest Ring exists outside of all universes, it also seems unlikely that a Green Sun needs to be created every time LE comes into existence. In fact, it seems more likely that every first guardian is powered by the very Green Sun created by the kids' session, which is itself pretty much par for the course regarding this story's circuitous time fuckery. __________________ Either you're dead or my watch has stopped.

11-03-2011, 02:56 AM	#8719
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	Yeah, I wouldn't expect the Green Sun to have to be created more than just this once. That would be weird, and not really fitting with what Doc Scratch said; that the kids' session is irregular even for one influenced by him. Anyway, this looks pretty rad. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here.

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11-02-2011, 06:59 PM	#8712
Mr.Bookworm YYYEEEEEAAAAAAHHH Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 2,034	MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION IN HOMESTUCK HISTORY Scratch/LE. Masturbation or sex?

11-02-2011, 07:43 PM	#8714
Arcanum Strike the Earth! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3,185	Heh. So the magic white cue-ball was a seed for Doc Scratch, who was in turn a seed for Lord English. But now I'm curious: Is the Lord English we see the one and only Lord English, or is he simply the Lord English of the Alternia Universe. What I mean is, we're told LE is methodical in his destruction of Universes, moving through them one at a time, but he only enters a Universe at its death. So now we know he enters the Alternian Universe by growing out of Doc Scratch (I'm trying to think of a way to describe what happened, and that seems the best so far). But are we witnessing the birth of Lord English? Is this his beginning? Is Alternia the very first universe he destroys? Or does he have a different form for every universe he enters, depending on the First Guardian he incubates in? The magic white cue-ball seems to be an essential part, being the seed of LE's being. Doc Scratch was made from the cue-ball, the First Guardian genetic key, and Lil Cal. My guess is, the cue-ball is the mind, the First Guardian genetic key is his power (allows him access to the Green Sun), and the third is a variable that defines his body. So my crazy theory is this (I feel like I'm rambling, but whatever): we're only seeing one form of Lord English, one who's physical body (and maybe to some extent his mentality in this instance) is derived from Lil Cal. So that if something other than Lil Cal was used in the creation of a Doc Scratch-like First Guardian (i.e. a First Guardian incubating LE), he would resemble that other thing. Okay that's enough rambling for now.

11-02-2011, 07:46 PM	#8715
Bard The 5th LW Feelin' Super! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,191	I'm pretty sure Scratch says he has existed in several Universes, and Jade did have a cueball. So my theory is that every universe is set up to have Doc Scratch appear in some way. Otherwise, why would he senmd a cueball over to the human universe. Cueball + Something else (Cal in Alternia's case). Any universe with Scratch is destined to have an English. In fact, I wouldn't be too shocked if the scratched Earth had a green moon hovering around it. Of course, we just have to wait and see.

11-03-2011, 03:04 AM	#8720
Arcanum Strike the Earth! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3,185	Where are you guys getting the idea of the green sun being created twice? Because I never even hinted at anything like that (at least I don't think I did).