Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[BitVyper]

Dunno, I just read it in POS' post.

Edit:

The Condesce, as well, could have been responsible for effectively "programming" the MEOW code into Rose's subconscious via Jaspers, which then results in the events leading to Bec's creation, which was necessary to lead to the creation of the Green Sun, which itself was necessary to create everything that created it, as after all a non-corrupt first guardian with a higher intellect than a dog would have probably facilitated a completely normal session.

The Meow code didn't make Becquerel a dog. The instruments in Paradox Space targeting Harley did. The Meow code was just the genetic code for creating a First Guardian at all. Hard to say how Bec's form could have been influenced, since most of the paradox-cloning instruments are all auto-targeted and locked.

[Viridis]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Anyway, this looks pretty rad.

I am liking this, personally.

[POS Industries]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

The Meow code didn't make Becquerel a dog. The instruments in Paradox Space targeting Harley did. The Meow code was just the genetic code for creating a First Guardian at all. Hard to say how Bec's form could have been influenced, since most of the paradox-cloning instruments are all auto-targeted and locked.

My point was that it had to be put into Rose's head so she'd obsessively write it down in a journal which would then be used to combine the genetic code with that of a dog through a very specific course of events ensuring that the Earth for that session wouldn't have a normal First Guardian, thereby playing into Lord English's plans, not that something called the "MEOW code" would somehow make something a dog.

Also, we actually don't know if the targeting that had taken place before John, Rose, or AR had entered their respective labs is an automatic result of the game's mechanics or just a result of someone having manually set those targets sometime before their arrival.

[Viridis]

What's a "normal" First Guardian, though, POS? All seem to come about in convoluted timey-wimey ways like this.

[POS Industries]

A "normal" First Guardian is one that isn't specifically designed in such a way as to lead to the summoning of an evil demonic master of time and space via their universe's complete annihilation, either by active involvement like Doc Scratch or just being a dog like Bec.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I've been thinking about what First Guardian actually means, since I suddenly realized that's a title we never really got a lot of explanation for, besides the fact that they all have the MEOW code (and are thus nigh-omnipotent).

I'm thinking, after the revelation that Scratch was keeping the Handmaid in the closet, that the First Guardian is a literal title. They're the first of the Guardians to arrive on their home planet. Bec was Jade's Guardian and Scratch turns out to have been the Handmaid's Guardian, albeit in the creepiest manner possible.

So I'm wondering who the First Guardian will be after the session reboot. Guessing either Bec (still taking care of Jade), Betty Crocker (she wasn't human, after all), or Halley.

Also totally startling revelation that I just saw: Jack was using a jackknife as his weapon way back when.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I'm banking on the new first guardian being Scratch or some variation of him. I can very well be wrong, but I'm still gunning on it.

[BitVyper]

Originally Posted by POS Industries

A "normal" First Guardian is one that isn't specifically designed in such a way as to lead to the summoning of an evil demonic master of time and space via their universe's complete annihilation, either by active involvement like Doc Scratch or just being a dog like Bec.

All we really know is that First Guardians exist to facilitate the purpose of their respective planets. In this case, that involved creating the Green Sun at all, and possibly the possibility of "universes" period, but that's speculative on my part. Without the Green Sun and First Guardians, I'm guessing stable, alpha timelines wouldn't exist. Hell, maybe having stable timelines necessitates an entity like Lord English to prune them.

Doc Scratch may or may not be interpretted as a subversion. Keep in mind that Lord English's existence is at least to some extent considered part of the natural order, or at least something that is sanctioned. In that case, ushering in Lord English seems like a fairly legitimate ultimate purpose for a planet to have. I'd probably stake whether it is or isn't on whether the original Alternia's First Guardian purposely set events in motion to lead to the scratch (the actual glitch in the session notwithstanding, because they could still have chosen not to scratch it), but I'm not sure that's a question that has any hope of being answered even in a series like Homestuck.

However, without Alternia bringing Lord English into their universe, there would have been no dual session, and there would be no Green Sun. That seems to serve a fairly significant purpose, and may make it as much Bec's doing as Scratch's, though they operate in different ways, and I'd guess that Bec is ultimately meant to facilitate the death of Lord English.

I don't think there really could possibly be a "norm" for First Guardians anyway. The only real commonality between them is that they are nearly omnipotent, and they don't accomplish their purposes through direct means.

Edit: The dual session itself is also interesting in that it could be seen as sexual reproduction between two universes. Ultimately, whatever universe the kids create will also bear the imprint of the trolls' direct influence. That could be seen as important in terms of creating the possibility of genetic variation amongst universes.

[POS Industries]

This is all very true and obviously plays into the central theme in Homestuck of the impossibility of subverting the inevitable. LE, the ultimate villain of the story, is completely reliant on inevitability to bring about his very existence, but it conceivably leaves him as much a slave to it as anyone else. The story is not about the heroes overcoming the inherent predestination involved in their lives and triumphantly carving their own fate, but rather whether or not they are even able to survive destiny and how they will or won't.

But what I'm saying about First Guardians is much more specific. There is a natural order to how the game is supposed to be played and the end result thereof, that is typical to the end of successfully creating a universe that itself eventually leads to the game in order to create the next universe in the chain. In a normal session, a First Guardian's task is to facilitate that standard purpose, thereby qualifying as a normal First Guardian from a normal session.

It has been pointed out that neither the kids' nor the trolls' sessions were normal, and therefore the First Guardians of these abnormal sessions were left with the task of facilitating the purpose of these abnormal sessions, thereby behaving as abnormal First Guardians by default. These anomalous sessions still serve a greater end to the overall functionality of the game, primarily the creation of the Green Sun, but it appears that their actions, mannerisms, and appearances are not to be taken as the standard, however broad that standard may be.

[Fifthfiend]

Keep in mind that Lord English's existence is at least to some extent considered part of the natural order, or at least something that is sanctioned.

Given the extent to which Doc Scratch's values of truth don't necessarily line up with what we assume, it's probably reasonable toe question what Doc Scratch means by "order" and who exactly it is that's "sanctioning" all of this.

Like for all we know LE's place in the natural order could be sanctioned by... LE.