Pokemon Umbral Theatre 11: Things That Make You Go Wuh?

[Dracorion]

Personally, I think weather effects are fine as is. The only one that stands a chance of being overpowered is Adamantistorm that deals double Sandstorm damage, gives the benefits to allies and detriments to the enemies (except it still doesn't damage Rock, Ground and Steel types), and gives 50% Defense to Rock-types on top of the 50% Special Defense it already gives.

Mwa. Ha. Ha.

If we do have to nerf weather effects, I'd say actually implement the "weather affects morale system". Like, give a damage penalty to units in weather detrimental to their type, and/or apply a morale penalty. Like, a Fire-type that takes damage during Sandstorm would take a bigger chunk out of that side's morale than, say, a Ground-type taking damage.

Alternatively, I could nerf Adamantistorm so it deals regular Sandstorm damage.

But I'm rather inclined to only go either-or on this one.

[Menarker]

Well, Adamantistorm is the exception in that only you can use it. If anything had to be nerfed, it would be that. But that is the result of your upgrade for Stage X pokemon boost. I wouldn't touch that at all.

I don't think any of the weathers or moves that count as weather need to be nerfed, including Adamantistorm. (Of course, this does mean I feel that Gravity and Trick Room should count as weather conditions with all the rights and abilities they do in the actual games.)

As for Drac's morale suggestion, that was what AB did at first. But it was dropped, mainly because of conflictions. Let's say that Sunny Day was up and a steel type was out. Normally, under that custom rule, they would take increased morale damage. But some steel types can use fire moves, which otherwise helps them. Logically, a pokemon that can benefit from a weather probably has been trained enough to not be effected morale wise for it.
And not counting the simple one like how Sunny Day boosts fire types and thus would be bad for grass, except that it also boosts several grass types moves.

Hence that morale suggestion is just needless complications on top of a already complex system.

[Geminex]

We'll see about adamanistorm.

As for the weather, I just think it's too much. Sure, everyone can use them, and sure, it's a double-edged sword...
But considering the power of weather effects, when applied to all combatants, and the fact that the user will benefit most from it, or he wouldn't be using it...
Considering all that, I really do think weather moves have more power than they should be. Because, once again, these battles are much, much larger than what's usual in the games. One weather-changing attack has much more of an effect on the battle than a normal attack.

I'm not sure how I'd change it exactly, but there's got to be some simple way. This game is just getting increasingly complex, I guess. But that's the trade-off.

[Menarker]

Why do you think it's too much? It wasn't a problem for you yesturday and anytime before. But now that I brought up why Gravity is not as strong as the other others and should not be nerfed but rather allowed to remain in the same power level of the others, you suggest that all the other weathers that were perfectly fine before should be nerfed for the sake of balance, despite it seemingly being quite ok before today.

[Geminex]

I was thinking about it, and some other stuff as well (like engineer amplifiers), but I just never had the time or patience to bring it up. It wasn't super-important, since we were between missions. But now that a new mission has begun, and it looks like weather effects are gonna play a significant role, and you already brought up that most weather effects were really strong, I thought I might as well mention it. I mean, it seemed like you agreed with me. You think a pokemon being able to deal out that many helping hands, for several turns at that, you think that's balanced?

[Dracorion]

Yes.

It's not like they're Helping Hands for everything.

Also, goddammit Menarker you stinky dummyface.

[Menarker]

Keep in mind that it only becomes helping hands for Fire types during Sunny Day and Water types during Rain Dance which means that either there are a bunch of pokemons of the same type on the field, slayer users, or the pokemons/brids using the moves are using the moves without gaining STAB. This means a lot of pokemons of the same type are being open to the same type of attacks such as an AOE element of that type. A boss using an AOE rock type attack against a bunch of fire types side by side for example. Also, the foe could attack with the same elements right back for helping hand benefits (unless it got dispelled before they got their turn).

Besides, AB could easily build a group that focuses on the weather conditions and use it against us. Maybe instead of us always ambushing the foes and getting the first strike, the evoliths will have precast a weather condition (they are like sentries) before we have arrived and thus the evolith's allies could try to take advantage of the benefits.
IE: When battle starts, some conditions are already preset as a result of foes tinkering with the battlefield. Maybe there are Stealth Rocks already placed. Spikes. Weather of different types being applied. That sort of stuff. AB could easily make things more balanced just by having the things that were our benefits now become the foe's benefits.

And I still don't know how you can possibly come up with a plausible way to effect weathers because they all operate differently. Hail doesn't have the same helping hand effect and neither does Sandstorm.

I think the best thing to do might be to just limit the number of turns that weather lasts in general. Unless the pokemons have an ability to improve the weather (like Abomasnow, Tyranitar, Groudon and Kyogure who can all summon their own respective weather), someone equipping an item that increases the length of the weather, or if someone like Matthias who might specialize in weather control gains buffs in some way like this, make it so weather only lasts 2 maybe 3 turns at most instead of the standard 5.

But I don't feel the weathers are unbalanced otherwise. AB just hasn't made them a huge focus in his battle plans just yet.

[Astral Harmony]

Honestly, I thought of using logic to determine when certain weather and moves weren't possible, but I decided against it. There are times when logic never worked in the Pokemon world (Apricorns into special Pokeballs? Seriously?) but it'd get really stupid to enforce certain bits of logic in Pokemon Umbral.

Here's a list of logical things that apply to Pokemon Umbral:

- You wouldn't be able to use certain weather under certain conditions. For example, Hail would fail when you're inside a smoking volcano. It's just too hot.
- These temperature and environmental extremes also effect Pokemon. Water type Pokemon would suffer Exhaustion and Apathy a lot faster in a dry, parched desert. Fire Pokemon would not leave Pokeballs when submerged in water. Ice Pokemon would not leave Pokeballs when in a volcano or in a desert. Legendary Pokemon would be exempt. In fact, I have some ideas where if you need Water Pokemon, have Jeanette deploy Kyogre to make the environment a lot less hellish to Water types.
- These conditions can also affect Pokemon in positive ways. Poison Pokemon love fighting in toxic areas like garbage dumps and polluted marshlands. Water Pokemon love underwater combat. Fire Pokemon are right at home in the desert and volcanos. Make sure to take your Ice types into the mountains. Bring the Flying types with you when you hit some really high altitudes. Electric types love thunderstorms and Rock types feel strong inside caverns.
- Environmental conditions will also affect your characters. Drawn out combat can inflict Exhaustion after a good number of turns, and foul weather, like being out in a hot, dry desert will tire you out more quickly and can also affect morale. Bitter cold and the deep seas are similar in their ability to wear out people who don't stay in those kinds of environments for very long. Be mindful when engaging the Water Ruin General. That'll be your first real battle where the surrounded environment is just as detrimental as the general itself.

And here's a list of logical things that do not apply to Pokemon Umbral out of sheer ridiculousness:

- You wouldn't be able to use Sunny Day, Rain Dance, or Hail when indoors. After all, where's the sun for sunshine or the clouds for rain or hail?
- If the floor was really solid or really thin with dangerous areas beneath, Dig would be impossible.
- If there's no water nearby, you cannot use Dive.
- If there's no water nearby, you cannot deploy certain Water Pokemon, particularly fish that are not Flying types as well such as Seaking, Lumineon, or Sharpedo.
- If there's a low ceiling, your Pokemon can still be targeted during their preparation turns for moves like Bounce and Fly. I mean, with a ceiling in the way, they wouldn't be going really high up, would they? Hell, those moves would probably suffer power penalties as well.
- Environmental conditions lockdown certain moves. For example, if there's no sand or rocks to break down into sand, you couldn't use Sand Attack and Sandstorm wouldn't be available.
- Weather effects are not available in outer space. In fact, a huge amount of moves would not be available in outer space, like Gust. How can you use Gust when there's no air to create it?

Anyways, don't ask about logical effects that do not follow standard Pokemon rules. I'll warn you about them as they come so that you're well prepared for them ahead of time.

[Dracorion]

We're going in outer space?

Dibs, fucking dibs, on the "why are you upside down?" line.

[Menarker]

I wonder how our pokemons will be able to breathe, nevermind fight. Pierce got Metagross and Renny got Magnezone, both of whom are robotic in nature. The rest... are kinda out of luck...


*Charlotte and Buck are with the rest of the group in space and she and the rest of her breathing pokemons are wearing astronaut suits customized for their build. Buck in particular is wearing a funny doggy astrosuit.

Charlotte:Buck! Incinerate that piece of shit with Flamethrower!
Buck: Arf Arf Ooooh ARF!! *If I do that, I'll melt my breathing helmet off from the inside! I'll die!*
Charlotte: Nevermind, that was a stupid idea. No air for fire and all that... Burn an eternal impression in their soft flesh with FIRE FANG!
Buck: Arf Arf! *Yes master!*
(Arcanine zooms through the reaches of space, gravity holiding no restraint on his incredible speed as he raises his head with jaws wide open as if victorious before swinging the jaw down for a bite.) BOINK! *ARF ARF* BOINK BOINK BOINK (The helmet acts like a dog muzzle as Arcanine repeatably tries to bite but the helmet getting in the way every time)
Charlotte: AUUUUGH! SPACE TRAVEL SUCKS ASS!