My paradox

[Bob The Mercenary]

While I was brainstorming ideas for my book today I came across a problem. I've come to call it a paradox and you'll see why in a minute.

Before anything else, though, even though this idea spawned from my Christian background, please try to keep this as far from a religious discussion as possible.

The idea of death comes up a lot in my story, and I've worked to expand on it enough so that each and every death, no matter how insignificant, means something to one or more of the characters.

That being said, I believe that everyone on this planet has a reason for being here. I believe everyone's been put here to complete a series of tasks, which upon completion, results in an exit from this world in the form of dying. Now, the tasks I'm talking about aren't simple and general like "marry this woman" or "have this kid" or "obtain this career". They are every single thing we do, every person we have an effect on, every idea we create, and everything in between. This "to-do list" contains thousands of these tiny events that we think of as trivial which ultimately end up drawing a much larger picture and changing the world as we know it, however contrived that sounds.

In addition, I've come up with three rules to this "list" that cannot be broken:

1. Nothing can be added or subtracted to the list.
2. No one can avoid completing a task in the list.
3. The list cannot be shortened or left uncompleted by an "untimely death" such as suicide.

You see that you couldn't physically break any of these rules unless you were, let's just say it, a god.

Now, here's the paradox. Let's say that your death is set from birth. The time, the place, the cause are all hardwired into time. Let's assume that person A died at age 15 by way of suicide through shooting himself. Now, by his death we can assume he completed all tasks that he was sent here to complete.

What if he hadn't gone through with the act? What if he never loaded the gun, cocked it and fired? Would his to-do list be extended? Which isn't allowed according to my rules. Or would he have just died some other way at the exact same moment?

In the book I'm considering using this example to explain "freak accidents".

[gurusloth]

Well, basically you're talking about pre-destiny vs. free will. Do we have free will, or does it only seem that way? Your use of the word 'hardwired' seems to indicate that you are talking about pre-destiny. If the kid's destiny was hardwired into time, then I don't think it would be possible for something to alter that event.

That's how it seems to me, anyway.

[ZERO.]

If your idea of your death being hard wired into time is true, I would assume if by some accident your preset form of death was avoided, time would compensate and set some other form of death at a later time.

In theory you could avoid death with either pure luck or amazing survival Instinct you would eventually just die at some form of limit the universe has set for living things.

Edit: Then again nothing is set in stone.... well stone is but thats not the point.

What I mean is your actions affect the future what you do is because of you.

Then again it can all be preset and your just along for the ride, there is no real way to find out unless your a god or your dead and can talk with a god for a few seconds or so.

[pictish]

I'm failing to see the need for a paradox since with predestination 'that was just meant to happen anyway'.

On the other hand, I don't particularly see the need for the paradox since it's based upon premises that take massive, strider leaps in assumptions.

But to play along for a while, essentially all I'm saying is that if the to-do list is preset from birth, and it can't be left incomplete, then there's no reason to say suicide is a choice anymore than eating a banana. Suicide was the last thing on the to-do list, and so it happened. There's no real problem there since there's no way to show that the list is incomplete, since it's an imaginery list, not a list we can check.

*scores off "Reply to thread "My paradox"*

[Dragonsbane]

If it is his destiny to do those tasks, then by fate events would inevitably lead to him committing suicide and dying in the assigned manner. His friend's car would run out of gas before he could get to his house and talk him out of it. His girlfriend, with whom he recently separated, wouldn't take his depression seriously and would continue to slander him. His father would come home drunk and beat the crap out of him for no reason...again...the night before the suicide. His boss would choose not to overlook the extenuating circumstances, and fire him for being late. All of the events would fit together like an incredibly intricate puzzle in order to cause his death at the predetermined moment. Yes, this would also deny free will.

[ziratha]

But he didn't do something else, and he never would have. You needn't worry about what if's, in this world you are talking about, they simply do not occur. If he has a list of tasks, shouldn't his killing himself be the very last item on said list? And he cannot avoid the task at hand.

[Mirai Gen]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

Now, here's the paradox. Let's say that your death is set from birth. The time, the place, the cause are all hardwired into time. Let's assume that person A died at age 15 by way of suicide through shooting himself. Now, by his death we can assume he completed all tasks that he was sent here to complete.

What if he hadn't gone through with the act? What if he never loaded the gun, cocked it and fired? Would his to-do list be extended? Which isn't allowed according to my rules. Or would he have just died some other way at the exact same moment?

In the book I'm considering using this example to explain "freak accidents".

This is less of a paradox and more of a self-contradiction. If you're saying you can commit suicide, then isn't that preordained mandate? Aren't you already implying that 'it was meant to happen' should the act be complete or incomplete?

I always get skeptical including the ever-popular fate in any of my books, except for Faith and Forgiveness, but that was almost entirely about religion. This is kinda why - you get to a point where you're wondering "maybe I'm bashing this whole fate buisness around a bit too much."

If you really want to kill a person and say that their list was incomplete, you can say another person - either born at that moment or already existing - takes up their tasks. That gets iffy, though, since that means that tasks can be 'transferred'.

In the end, this is what I think, and I know enough about writing books to say that I can't help you with that last bit.

[misterchainsaw]

Well, if a god could break the rules then wouldent that be why he didn't commit suicide? According to your ruels gods and break them. If the god needed this individual for some reason, then wouldent that be why he was kept alive?

I tried to anser your question staying within your boundaries, in no way are these my beleifs.

[TheSpacePope]

Actually Bob I have thought on this alot. You come from a christian background and I come from a scientific, however I do believe in a predestination of sorts. Here is how I look at it.

Everything has a specific gravity and energy moves through space in a waveform. We are made of energy so are subject to all laws of thermodynamics, gravitation and the like. think of it this way, life is like a rope and the fibers that make up the rope are all woven together, what one fiber does affects all others and vice versa. It is not strictly speaking, like that, that just shows you somewhat where I am coming from. The fact is we are all energy wavelengths with different specific gravities and makeups. Everything that you do interacts with the environment around you and how you interact with people changed the direction (path) of their energy. However minute, interaction with other beings has an effect. Whether or not you have things (whatever they are) to do here is entirely dependant on who you have interacted with. All energy waveforms interact with one another in different ways. Even as I am typing this, It is interacting with your energy. whether or not it is controlled by Elohim is up to the beholder. As far as predestination goes, I am not sure. However I think that if you are predestined, then how can there be sin, or even choice or free will since everything was what you were supposed to do in the first place. It cannot be set from birth. I have had many situations that I should have perished, but the thoughts and energies of others that were waiting for me, or that i had interacted with in the past, kept me grounded here. Your body is a receptor for a wavelength that we do not fully understand. But one thing is for certian; You aren't leaving enough room in the equation. The universe operates on a sort of "ordered Chaos" And the only thing that is constant is the will of the great magnet. (god, for those of you that believe in Him, the supermassive black hole at the center of the universe for those that do not)

Edit: Just so you know, I am not one of those new agers, that sits around and talks about crystal energies and shit like that, I just believe that there is an elegan t clockwork to how everything works and the key to all life, the universe itself, and everything is energy.

[IHateMakingNames]

If there was a fate, no matter what happens during this kids suicide, that is what was supposed to happen. If he loaded the gun and kills himself, then it was supposed to happen. If he ends up not dying, that was supposed to happen.

If however the kid some how does not do what he was fated to do (Die or live), then fate would instantly be destroyed. If he was meant to die, but does not, everything he interacts with would be free of their fate, since he was never supposed to interact with them at all. Eventually this would either spread to remove fate, or if he died soon afterwords the fate breaking would be contained and eventually supressed by everyone else's fates going as they should.

Edit - Also, isn' this the plot of Final Destination?