eBay banning Death Metal.

dposse · 09-17-2006, 07:03 PM

http://roadrun.com/blabbermouth.net/...wsitemID=58406

Quote:

Paula Hogan of MANIC Music & Distribution and Candlelight Records USA has contacted BLABBERMOUTH.NET to report that "eBay is [allegedly] currently starting a ban on black/extreme metal. A few of our vendors who have sizeable eBay stores are now finding their items pulled down by eBay directly. The list we have compiled so far that have been pulled for sale via any eBay stores or auctions is noted below. I'm sure there are more."

Added Dan Ferguson of Indianapolis, IN's Abyss Records: "I had a number of items removed and account suspended by selling black metal. It seems a group of so-called Christians have been reporting black metal bands (even though eBay has black metal as a search genre) as all racist and hateful and discriminatory."

The items that were allegedly removed by eBay because they "violated the eBay Hateful or Discriminatory policy" are as follows:

BURZUM - Complete 6 LP SET

EMPEROR - IX Equilibrium ORIG. LP

WOTANORDEN - From The.. CD

BURZUM - s/t / Aske DOUBLE LP

1349 - Beyond The CD

DARKTHRONE - Panzerfaust CD

MAYHEM - Collection 4 LP SET

PANTHEON - Krihapentswor CD

DARKTHRONE - Total Death CD

BURZUM - Draugen CD DVD

BURZUM - Daudi Baldrs LP

BURZUM - Daudi Baldrs CD

ZYKLON B - Blood Must Be Shed CD

ARMAGGEDON - Imperium CD

EMPEROR - Demo LP

1349 - Hellfire DOUBLE LP

DARKTHRONE - Hate Them CD

BURZUM - Filosofem DOUBLE LP

BURZUM - Hlidskjalf LP

BURZUM - Det Som Engang Var DIGI CD

CAMULOS / AINSHVAL - Split CD

BURZUM - Hvis Lyset Tar Oss LP

BURZUM - Det Som Engang Var LP

NOKTURNAL MORTUM - Weltanschauung CD

SATYRICON - Now, Diabolical CD

In eBay's e-mail to Ferguson explaining their decision to remove his listing, they write, "eBay doesn't permit sellers to list items that promote or glorify hatred, violence, or racial intolerance. Items that promote organizations with such views are also prohibited.

"eBay will judiciously disallow listings or items that promote or glorify hatred, violence or racial intolerance, or items that promote organizations (such as Nazis, neo-Nazis and Aryan Nation) with such views. This policy also applies to listings that offer shipping to countries where certain items may be illegal."

I understand the eBay has this thing against racist stuff, but metal is metal. Why don't they censor just about everything in Rap since it says the N word every five seconds? How far does eBays policy go?

Chipper173 · 09-17-2006, 09:23 PM

Wow.

That's pretty effing metal.

All those bands need to get together, and make an album about sticking it to eBay.

But yeah, totally hypocritical.

katsielyonz · 09-17-2006, 10:05 PM

That's horrible. Don't get me wrong, it's horrible that people have prejudiced views, but I think it's their views to have. And censoring material like that is just crazy, I don't care what it is, it could be 10 ways to conjure Satan or some weird craziness, but censoring what people can and can't sell as well as what people can and can't buy based on politically correct bs is bs. It's so gray as to where the line is, to who can say what and why, and for anybody to say 'here is the line' is nuts.

However, on the flip side of that, privately owned businesses are able to run their show however they want. Weird eh? That private business get the right to express whatever views they want while censuring whatever views they want? I'm on the fence on this one. I'd like to think that if I'm running a business, I'd be able to be in control of what was going on. But ebay is in the business of allowing business, it seems like the same rights they get they should be able to allow to their clients...

Censuring metal is just the expansion of their own neo nazi thinking. >:

And yes, I'm very vocal.

Skyshot · 09-17-2006, 10:17 PM

Really, it's their loss for them as a business. They could refuse to sell anything made of metal because they felt like it; it just wouldn't be very bright. Besides, I imagine there are plenty of other avenues for people to sell these things.

Quote:

Censuring metal is just the expansion of their own neo nazi thinking. >:

Forgive me if I missed something, but aren't the Neo Nazis extremely racist? And aren't they censoring these because of (insert opinionated relative quantitative adjective here) racist content?

Anyways, I'm not familiar with anything on that list. How many of those actually contain racist content and how many are lumped in because of guilt by association?

Meister · 09-18-2006, 02:54 AM

Some of those do seem to be closely associated with National Socialist Black Metal. Nokturnal Mortum, according to the Wikipedia article, and, from what I know myself, Burzum are anything but beyond suspicion. And if you call your band Wotanorden* or Zyklon B* you've got to be prepared. Of course, you got to keep in mind that provocation is a huge part of this scene. Finally, putting Mayhem on that list is ridiculous, since they've never been associated with racism to my knowledge.

As for the overall situation, eBay is, as katsielyonz said, a privately owned business, and if it was mine, I'd probably disallow selling Nazi propaganda (for lack of a better general term) too, but you better be sure I'd take the time to thoroughly check what doesn and doesn't fall under that heading. It doesn't look like eBay is doing this, and I'm sure some perfectly acceptable bands will be or have already been included.

*"Order of Wotan;" Wotan is the germanic version of Odin and is often held in high regards in neo-nazi circles, but also with pagans.
*That would be the gas the Nazis used to mass-murder Jews in concentration camps.

katsielyonz · 09-18-2006, 10:28 AM

My point with the 'it's their own neo-nazi thinking' is that that's how they think. They (as in any kind of nazi or prejudiced group) what to censure whatever group they're against. That's what ebay is doing. They're doing the same thing that most prejudiced groups want to do to others. When you allow for expression it should be either all or not at all. To limit some while not others is propoganda.

But once again I run into the private vs public, and I'm not entirely sure what I would do. I think with a company like ebay I'd probably allow the sale of all legal materials, however I would probably ask people to post warnings about the content, and make sure that the front I'm putting up for MY business would be wholesome, with the warning that content that is sold is under the jurisdiction of the clients not me. As soon as you begin to take responsibility for what people are selling you set yourself up for a lawsuit.

Savage Thinking · 09-18-2006, 11:06 AM

Well, I think that this is just a way for bands to challenge the First Amendment. This situation reminds me of the deal with Denmark and the picture of Muhammad, or with South Park and Comedy Central eith the same thing. Certain people just feel the need to question their authority and see how much freedom one has.

In some ways, some people see this as going to far. Sometimes, when people feel the need to do so, the only way might be to do something some people might seem to be "extreme". In this case, these bands just take their freedom of speech to question and eBay feels they've gone too far. Certain people might also see it as offensive. For example, how the Muslims felt with the picture of Muhammad in Denmark.

Fifthfiend · 09-18-2006, 06:00 PM

If I was ebay, I would ban death metal for being awful-sounding bullshit.

I saw a death-metal band in concert once, their last song was actually four minutes of the guitarist holding his guitar and mic up to the fucking amplifier and me clutching my hands over my ears to shut out the feedback-scream. My ears rang for a day and a half after that one.

Just thought I'd share.

Mashirosen · 09-18-2006, 07:32 PM

Quote:

They (as in any kind of nazi or prejudiced group) what to censure whatever group they're against. That's what ebay is doing. They're doing the same thing that most prejudiced groups want to do to others. When you allow for expression it should be either all or not at all.

That's pretty amusing, considering where you're posting it.

Nique · 09-19-2006, 03:39 AM

Quote:

If I was ebay, I would ban death metal for being awful-sounding bullshit.

I Lol'd.

I think eBay is probably striking a proper balence. I mean, if you get some kind of super-fundamentalist thinker from any belife-system at it's head making multiple decisions along those lines, then maybe eyebrows should be raised. As is, they seem to be alienating themselves from products they do not wish the eBay name to be associated with or promoted using the eBay service.

I'm fuzzy on the legality, but seeing as that most eBay buyers aren't out-of-their-ever-loving-mind-stark-raving-mad-racist-morons, I don't think eBay is going to suffer much from the loss.

09-18-2006, 06:00 PM	#8
Fifthfiend for all seasons Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 19,409	If I was ebay, I would ban death metal for being awful-sounding bullshit. I saw a death-metal band in concert once, their last song was actually four minutes of the guitarist holding his guitar and mic up to the fucking amplifier and me clutching my hands over my ears to shut out the feedback-scream. My ears rang for a day and a half after that one. Just thought I'd share. __________________ check out my buttspresso

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09-17-2006, 09:23 PM	#2
Chipper173 Grandma threw away my animes Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hang a left at the deli. Posts: 858	Wow. That's pretty effing metal. All those bands need to get together, and make an album about sticking it to eBay. But yeah, totally hypocritical.

09-17-2006, 10:05 PM	#3
katsielyonz Troopa Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 88	That's horrible. Don't get me wrong, it's horrible that people have prejudiced views, but I think it's their views to have. And censoring material like that is just crazy, I don't care what it is, it could be 10 ways to conjure Satan or some weird craziness, but censoring what people can and can't sell as well as what people can and can't buy based on politically correct bs is bs. It's so gray as to where the line is, to who can say what and why, and for anybody to say 'here is the line' is nuts. However, on the flip side of that, privately owned businesses are able to run their show however they want. Weird eh? That private business get the right to express whatever views they want while censuring whatever views they want? I'm on the fence on this one. I'd like to think that if I'm running a business, I'd be able to be in control of what was going on. But ebay is in the business of allowing business, it seems like the same rights they get they should be able to allow to their clients... Censuring metal is just the expansion of their own neo nazi thinking. >: And yes, I'm very vocal.

09-18-2006, 02:54 AM	#5
Meister Pure joy Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 10,689	Some of those do seem to be closely associated with National Socialist Black Metal. Nokturnal Mortum, according to the Wikipedia article, and, from what I know myself, Burzum are anything but beyond suspicion. And if you call your band Wotanorden* or Zyklon B* you've got to be prepared. Of course, you got to keep in mind that provocation is a huge part of this scene. Finally, putting Mayhem on that list is ridiculous, since they've never been associated with racism to my knowledge. As for the overall situation, eBay is, as katsielyonz said, a privately owned business, and if it was mine, I'd probably disallow selling Nazi propaganda (for lack of a better general term) too, but you better be sure I'd take the time to thoroughly check what doesn and doesn't fall under that heading. It doesn't look like eBay is doing this, and I'm sure some perfectly acceptable bands will be or have already been included. "Order of Wotan;" Wotan is the germanic version of Odin and is often held in high regards in neo-nazi circles, but also with pagans. That would be the gas the Nazis used to mass-murder Jews in concentration camps.

09-18-2006, 10:28 AM	#6
katsielyonz Troopa Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 88	My point with the 'it's their own neo-nazi thinking' is that that's how they think. They (as in any kind of nazi or prejudiced group) what to censure whatever group they're against. That's what ebay is doing. They're doing the same thing that most prejudiced groups want to do to others. When you allow for expression it should be either all or not at all. To limit some while not others is propoganda. But once again I run into the private vs public, and I'm not entirely sure what I would do. I think with a company like ebay I'd probably allow the sale of all legal materials, however I would probably ask people to post warnings about the content, and make sure that the front I'm putting up for MY business would be wholesome, with the warning that content that is sold is under the jurisdiction of the clients not me. As soon as you begin to take responsibility for what people are selling you set yourself up for a lawsuit.

09-18-2006, 11:06 AM	#7
Savage Thinking Yeeeah, son. Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stranded in the middle of the ocean with no desire to be rescued. Posts: 755	Well, I think that this is just a way for bands to challenge the First Amendment. This situation reminds me of the deal with Denmark and the picture of Muhammad, or with South Park and Comedy Central eith the same thing. Certain people just feel the need to question their authority and see how much freedom one has. In some ways, some people see this as going to far. Sometimes, when people feel the need to do so, the only way might be to do something some people might seem to be "extreme". In this case, these bands just take their freedom of speech to question and eBay feels they've gone too far. Certain people might also see it as offensive. For example, how the Muslims felt with the picture of Muhammad in Denmark.