The Anti-education movement

[Drakolan]

America seems to be on this huge Anti- kick right now.

Anti-Muslim, Anti-Bush, Anti-Intellectual...

The last one is the one that scares me the most.

We actually have some radical right wingers out there that are screaming to not send kids to college or even public school, but instead to teach them the Bible and only the theories and ideas you want them to learn. The scary and sad part is, this movement is really starting to gain some vocal ground. We're heading for a theocracy which is just.. not the best way to run a country this size, to say the least.

Having set through a few biology classes in my time, the whole evolution thing is full of holes, anyone can see that. A lot of it just sounds like lame excuse after lame excuse. This isn't necessarily because it isn't true, we just can't observe speciation because it takes so long. But, we can't pretend that the idea of evolution isn't out there because we disagree with it. Its the osterich syndrome: if you hide your head in the sand, the problem still won't go away. The theory of evolution is just that, a theory. And theories can be modified as new information arises, we sure as in hell know that species that are better adapted to a climate or situation survive and reproduce. The rest is just a guess to where millions of years of that could head.

The next area of concern we have is the cut in funding to arts and physical education programs. Our school systems are becoming filled with a bunch of fat kids that have no appreciation for what is beautiful or unique. And any teacher worth his/her salt will tell you that education in the arts and running your chunky butt around the block a few times is important to maintaining a well-balanced education. Go look up some of the studies sometime. Of course, this is what happens whenever people who aren't teachers make decisions on what should be taught. Now the Democrats want them to also make decisions on what operation you should have. Yikes.

Sorry to rant for awhile, but in my opinion this is one of the largest issues that's out there right now, and its the one that is going most unacknowledged. Of course that could also just be a personal bias because I'm going into the education field, and I have to deal with ignorant children. Joy.

[Dragon Knight]

One, the people who support that teach only the bible are ignorant and obviously don't have a clue to how the real world works.
Two, PE needs more funding, so it can become more than running and the most common sports (football, soccer, baseball, derivatives of said sports).
Three, being a teacher is hard work, I am not one but my mother is and let's just say quite a few kids are very aggravating, but there are some good ones, usually very few, though it varies by
I may also be biased, and this may not be the best or most eloquent way of saying what i mean, but I am not very good at elaborating.

[The Tortured one]

there are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root ~ Henry David Thoreau

Our education system is in shambles. Our teachers are unqualified and underpaid, books are 30 years old, and most importantly there is no incentive for the students to succeed at all. Politicians all make the same mistake; they try to make the government work for them, when the government does not do the job nearly as well as private industries

Private schools are fundamentally better than public schools. The reason is the governments forced death grip on our education. In public schools, there is no reason for a school to excel, only to meet the ever lowering standard.

True there are teachers who are working their hardest to turn this around, but they have turned into the Atlas's of education, bearing the weight of the burden on their shoulders, any fault with the children is their fault.

However, in a free market there is no standard to be met. The only standard is excellence, for them to excel means for more demand for that school, meaning more profit for the owners of the school, meaning the school has more money to hire better teachers, employ better technology, and accept more students.

the ultimate goal would be the complete privatization of the education system, and the elimination of the beaurocratic mess called the department of education

however, In our mixed economy, I can not forsee this happening in the immediate future. With the government taking as much as they do, many people would not be able to afford such a system. Thats why my immediate solution would be school Vouchers and an option for parents to take out a tax credit. If the parent does not wish to send their child to the government school, they have the option to keep that money for their own child, where they are free to spend it to send their children to public school.

This would help lower middle class families afford superior private schools for their children, and it would aleviate the overcrowded conditions of public schools, helping public schools to allocate their funds to helping those children who really are needy to succeed.

that way, if you didn't like the fact that the bible is taught in the school, you have the option to change schools. However, the people should have the option to, if they see fit, to send their child to a school where religion is the focal point of their education.

[Papacha]

There are many problems with the Public school system, I agree. Hell, I would know, since I'm still in it right now. The main problem that I see, however, is that teaching simply isn't a worthwhile job. It is thankless, and pays little. I mean, who wants to work in high schools today? Mine has 5 police officers working around the clock, and over 20 security guards, just to keep us from killing each other. Its madness! I've had a few teachers who were really outstanding, and who obviously loved their job. However, I've had many more bad teachers than good. I remember learning more from other students and my text book what my teacher was under qualified to teaching. It’s a shame, it turns off so many kids from learning.

I also feel that it is pointless to make schooling mandatory. I would say about half of my school is failing at least 1 class, and would leave in a heartbeat. It just isn't productive to be schooling people who don't want to be there. In order to learn, you have to actually try, or care. You can't just learn through osmosis...it simply doesn't work. If we got rid of the students who, not only are bound to fail, but are already failing, it would leave more funding for the promising students. Not everyone can grow up to be doctors and lawyers, and this is America. We have the right to determine our own future.

I disagree with you on the issue of PE, though. Well, more specifically, on sports. I'm of the opinion that extra-curricular sports, like Football, Basketball, etc., have no real place in a school setting. If even a fraction of the cost that went into equipment and maintaining the fields, went into our computer department, we would be able to have some decent programs to work with, maybe even decent computers. Sorry, but QBasic isn't a language worth learning. Not only that, but most of our sports players are failing. Our football teams average GPA is 1.2...thats a tad bit better than a D average. Playing sports in High School has no bearing on your future, unless you get extremely lucky and become a professional. But what are the odds of that?

Now, this is exactly why I hate organized religion. Religion, IMO, relies on ignorance. I mean, it’s faith-based, therefore logic has no place in it. Super-Christians, generally, become very uncomfortable when asked to explain anything in the Bible. Just how would one go about telling us how we all descended from two perfect beings (that in itself is impossible, or we would be perfect ourselves. Which we aren't, as is evident by the fact that we die), or that the world was created in 7 days? You can't. I can just envision America, full of red-neck hicks run through the Bible Belt. Thats what will happen eventually if we stop educating ourselves. Not a very bright future, is it?

[Martyr]

People forget the purpose of school as opposed to college.
In school, we learn the core basics of education and what we need to know.
2 + 2 = 4
2 + X - 4 = 48 (X = 50) *I Think*

For this reason, it is imperative for arts and physical education (And the like) to be taught. The students must understand fitness as well as basic stuff.
The education that forwards our lives is specialized in college. Because, in our age, college education is as mandatory as high school. In fact, high school is truly nothing more than a social playground. Kids learn maturity there and precious little else. That's been my situation anyway. And the same for everybody else I know (Except for the college drop-out bums who never actually matured)

Me = Christian.
Despite that, you're absolutely right about teaching religion in schools in place of something like evolution.
My stand is that, even though we say that evolution is a theory, we shouldn't put quite so much emphasis on it. It should only be referred to as an idea for a solution when the scientific impossibilities arrive. I do believe very much in science and that there are many questions that science can answer.
I do encourage teaching theology as a counter measure. And not simply making it half a chapter in a history book.

On a side note, Christian fanatics who want only the Bible to be taught in schools are simply over-zealous. I can't say they're wrong, but I can't join them in their efforts. I can only request that you try to refuse their demands with as much kindness as possible. They have this secret information that they're dying to get out, and it's hard for some people to sit and watch the world play out wrongly, even if the logic is correct. [/self conscious religion defense rant]

As far as actual education goes... The level of effort we require of students and such... I think the bar needs to be raised. Unfortunately, I don't know if the kids can handle it. We live in a very liberal society, and the free-idiot Gen Xers totally screwed up the American perception of what are morals and ethics, what is life all about, how should we be spending our time...
I hate to admit it, but I don't think that our children are raised with the capacity for knowing anything before they're 18. Life is too easy for them to care. It sure was too easy for me to give a crap. It took me 3 years to get my GPA up and get into a decent university because I couldn't get it. And I'm smart as a whip (If I do say so myself). I think I (we) are far too spoiled. We're total imbeciles. We're not intelligent, we're intellectual. Everything we know is ficticious crap until college, and college is only for people who are unsatisfied with the nothing that they learned in school. And sometimes college just makes people dumber!

I don't know the solution. I know that I had a grade A high school, and I know that we incorporated students from a lower class area, and the school dropped to a D. More people became uneducated. I guess the plan backfired.

I can only rant. I can't solve anything here. Leave me. I'm miserable. I'll just go do what I think is right. At least I can do what I think is best. I'll get my degree and become a writer. I'll try to change the world. But my logic is just another POV that nobody else can understand without the help of drastic sarcasm.

Edit:
Papacha! HAHAHA!!! Ask me any question you want! (But over PM, por favor. For such theological discussion is not allowed here.) I felt the need to post this because so many brash talkers like you never get challenged to a question and answer session. There's way too much weakling/false Christianity in this country.

[Papacha]

sure thing, Martyr. Give me you SN, and I'll have this conversation with you. Preferably not in the near future, since I have finals tomorrow and the day after

[Squishy Cheeks]

Vouchers are a shit idea and I'll explain why.

The Public schools are already underfunded. So taking money away from them to cyphon it to private schools will only worsen the situation in public schools. If parents want their kids to go to private schools there are scholarships.

[Luna Santin]

Originally Posted by JADGuy

Vouchers are a shit idea and I'll explain why.

The Public schools are already underfunded. So taking money away from them to cyphon it to private schools will only worsen the situation in public schools. If parents want their kids to go to private schools there are scholarships.

That's only a problem in certain versions of the vouchers concept where people are still going to public schools. In a full-scale voucher system, the modern concept of public schools is replaced by semi-private institutions -- the public schools don't exactly have their funding cut, but rather they essentially become private schools.

My fix-it ideas? I don't expect them to be perfect. Higher salaries and changed social perception of teachers would attract more qualified applicants; do we want the saying, "Those who can't, teach," to govern the education of our children? More training for teachers would help for reasons which I hope are obvious. Earlier tracking of curriculum would allow for students to learn more of those things which interest them, which are relevant to them, and which they are capable of learning, and would also allow teachers to be better trained to meet the specific needs of the students they deal with -- if nothing else, it seems to me that it would help to sort out the children by their speed of learning. Smaller class sizes would allow for more individual attention to students. More local control allows for accountability to those most directly interested in education: students and parents themselves.

[The Tortured one]

Originally Posted by JADGuy

Vouchers are a shit idea and I'll explain why.

The Public schools are already underfunded. So taking money away from them to cyphon it to private schools will only worsen the situation in public schools. If parents want their kids to go to private schools there are scholarships.

I already explained this

Originally Posted by the tortured one

This would help lower middle class families afford superior private schools for their children, and it would aleviate the overcrowded conditions of public schools, helping public schools to allocate their funds to helping those children who really are needy to succeed.

they aren't siphoning funds into private schools, they are giving back to the people who do not wish to use these services anyway (but are still forced to pay for them)

[Royalspork]

Originally Posted by JADGuy

Vouchers are a shit idea and I'll explain why.

The Public schools are already underfunded. So taking money away from them to cyphon it to private schools will only worsen the situation in public schools. If parents want their kids to go to private schools there are scholarships.

wow my school system gets 20 cents on the doller.