Pokemon Umbral Discussion 38: Shenanigans At Dawn, Sir!

[Astral Harmony]

Bringing back our favorite fanservice...

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo's retarded ass

I think the best way to make it happen is to reserve it only for PCs who...oh, have five ranks in both Trainer and Slayer. We'll start off from that and work our way to a better suggestion.

Did you twits even read the second sentence? If you don't think it's a good idea, then come up with a better suggestion! Son of a bitch, you guys don't thoroughly read anything I put out, do you?

At any rate, I'm on duty today and hopefully I'll be more or less unsupervised so that I can do Pokemon Umbral related stuff.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by BardTheFifthLightWarrior

Hey Drac, if you pay me $5 I'll help you cheat.

Done.

Except no payment until proof of completion.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Did you twits even read the second sentence? If you don't think it's a good idea, then come up with a better suggestion! Son of a bitch, you guys don't thoroughly read anything I put out, do you?

So we did to you what you always do to us?

Anyway, we did read. And if you read thoroughly, you'd know that we asked for clarification.

Anyway, assuming we're right about what we think that change would do, I would propose making it so that it only takes ten ranks in either of the classes that make up the dual-class.

So one could get, say... Trainer level 9 and Slayer level 1 and be able to attack without using Geminex's support system. Or Slayer 8 and Trainer 2, and so on. Basically just ten ranks in either class.

And then I would propose lowering it so it only takes 8 ranks.

[Astral Harmony]

Good. That's a decent suggestion.

I don't know why anyone needed clarification. I figured it was pretty clear what I said right from the get-go. I put things out as clear as I can make it. If I have to elaborate even further than that, then I end up feeling like an ass because I think I'm insulting your intelligence.

[Dracorion]

Why would you ever feel bad about insulting us?

We're not nice people.

[Menarker]

While I was at work, my mind was thinking up Pokemon Umbral related stuff as normal.

First thing that came to mind was my overall confusion about whether Trainer Attacks had given us when we used it or not (I thought it was not since that was what the upgrade page said). Then it struck me... If you guys (Pierce and Charlotte) were getting rage from trainer attacking all this time, then I was never getting rage during those times (since Renny doesn't use Trainer Attack). And if that is the case, then I wonder how/why the hell you guys were ragging on me with Togekiss's rage gathering item since you guys were getting free rage every turn!

On another note, I thought of what Renny's new Trainer Action would be like. I thought of something like this.

Cheerful Back-up: Renny has trained his pokemons to fight effectively in other people's names in their defense, although their spirits remain highest when they fight for him.
Effect: Upon use, when Renny would gain rage for one or both pokemons attacking, that rage can be given to someone else. If neither pokemon does this, Renny gains one additional attack's worth of base rage for himself.

So basically, let's say I have Swampert and Togekiss attack and they both hit their targets. I could have the 5 rage Swampert get goes to the team medic and the 5 rage Togekiss would get could go to Impact or Pierce or so. Or the 10 rage total could go to one person (other than Renny). If no one else is selected for either pokemon, Renny gets 5 free rage. I say "base rage" because that number might rise upon upgrades like Breeder 1. It has utility, but also has a downside that Renny won't get rage from his pokemon attacking if the rage is dedicated to someone else.


Which brings me up to something that came to mind. How will rage generation boosts work from multiple classes? Let's use my my upgrade plan where I plan to go Breeder 1 and Overdrive 3 as an example. (Please try not to be spiteful. I'm being honest and upfront with you.) As a slayer, Renny would gain 10 rage when attacking. When his pokemons attack, he should supposably be getting 7 rage per pokemon if he has Breeder 1. As an Overblade 1, his base rage generation multiplies by 1.5 times. Does this multiplication work for all rage from attacking or being attacked gained by Renny or only for Overblade related rage?
Mind you, once the character becomes a Battle-Master, their rage generation improves because a slayer practically counts as 2 pokemons when he attacks. Let's say the Battle Master using Pierce's system is Trainer 4 and Slayer 4 (no rage generation boost from upgrades). Since he's fighting alongside one other pokemon at least instead of by himself like Impact has done so far, that's an extra 5 rage. 10 for himself and 5 from the pokemon fighting alongside him. If AB intended that we could fight with both pokemons (3 attackers), then that's an extra 10 rage instead, 10 for the pokemons and 10 for the slayer.


Drac's suggestion regarding the dual-classing into "effective" Battle Masters sounds good.


One thing that I do want to bring up and ask about, for the sake of honesty and such is about what I'd hope for pokebrid.

EDIT: I already mentioned before that I was thinking of doing much like what Gem suggested and having Pokebrid and Slayer "blend" power somewhat. Basically, that Renny once he gets slayer and pokebrid would use attacking pokemon moves with proportionally the same power as slayers. Such like Aerial Ace or Knock Off having the same effect as normal but the same power as a slayer weapon. I was/am willing to forgo slayer weapons as a sort of balance as well as a roleplaying quirk, since Renny would probably not want to use weapons... although fighting as a pokemon technically isn't much better... but people use funny logic justifying why some weapons are more or less moral than others!

One thing that people might bring up is that Renny might have more elements to attack with in general since his move list determines the elements he has. Hence why I thought giving up slayer weapons was a bit of a fair trade. I mean, some slayer weapons are incredibly awesome. I mean, 50% freeze chance with the ice weapon? Absurd! Most attacking pokemon moves don't have status effects nearly as powerful as slayer weapons!

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

First thing that came to mind was my overall confusion about whether Trainer Attacks had given us when we used it or not (I thought it was not since that was what the upgrade page said). Then it struck me... If you guys (Pierce and Charlotte) were getting rage from trainer attacking all this time, then I was never getting rage during those times (since Renny doesn't use Trainer Attack). And if that is the case, then I wonder how/why the hell you guys were ragging on me with Togekiss's rage gathering item since you guys were getting free rage every turn!

We can't spam Trainer Attack to get 30 Rage in one turn.

Renny, on the other hand, can have Togekiss use Follow Me. Sure, you'll say Renny would never do that, but it's entirely possibly to come up with some bullshit justification like "oh, Renny doesn't think Togekiss will get knocked out" or "but Togekiss is really really durable" or some shit.

Basically, Menarker =/= Renny.

Originally Posted by Menarker

On another note, I thought of what Renny's new Trainer Action would be like. I thought of something like this.

Cheerful Back-up: Renny has trained his pokemons to fight effectively in other people's names in their defense, although their spirits remain highest when they fight for him.
Effect: Upon use, when Renny would gain rage for one or both pokemons attacking, that rage can be given to someone else. If neither pokemon does this, Renny gains one additional attack's worth of base rage for himself.

So basically, let's say I have Swampert and Togekiss attack and they both hit their targets. I could have the 5 rage Swampert get goes to the team medic and the 5 rage Togekiss would get could go to Impact or Pierce or so. Or the 10 rage total could go to one person (other than Renny). If no one else is selected for either pokemon, Renny gets 5 free rage. I say "base rage" because that number might rise upon upgrades like Breeder 1. It has utility, but also has a downside that Renny won't get rage from his pokemon attacking if the rage is dedicated to someone else.

Oh, I'm going to let someone else tackle this one.

My preliminary opinion is "sure, why not?"

I'm still thinkin' about Pierce's. I dunno, maybe I'll just have Chizuru do something.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Which brings me up to something that came to mind. How will rage generation boosts work from multiple classes? Let's use my my upgrade plan where I plan to go Breeder 1 and Overdrive 3 as an example. (Please try not to be spiteful. I'm being honest and upfront with you.) As a slayer, Renny would gain 10 rage when attacking. When his pokemons attack, he should supposably be getting 7 rage per pokemon if he has Breeder 1. As an Overblade 1, his base rage generation multiplies by 1.5 times. Does this multiplication work for all rage from attacking or being attacked gained by Renny or only for Overblade related rage?
Mind you, once the character becomes a Battle-Master, their rage generation improves because a slayer practically counts as 2 pokemons when he attacks. Let's say the Battle Master using Pierce's system is Trainer 4 and Slayer 4 (no rage generation boost from upgrades). Since he's fighting alongside one other pokemon at least instead of by himself like Impact has done so far, that's an extra 5 rage. 10 for himself and 5 from the pokemon fighting alongside him. If AB intended that we could fight with both pokemons (3 attackers), then that's an extra 10 rage instead, 10 for the pokemons and 10 for the slayer.

I imagine the extra 7 Rage from Breeder would only apply to Pokemon attacks. I don't know if the x1.5 multiplier would apply only to the Overblade, but I'm thinking it should.

Also, Impact gets exclusive access to Full Demonship. He doesn't get to complain.

Originally Posted by Menarker

EDIT: I already mentioned before that I was thinking of doing much like what Gem suggested and having Pokebrid and Slayer "blend" power somewhat. Basically, that Renny once he gets slayer and pokebrid would use attacking pokemon moves with proportionally the same power as slayers. Such like Aerial Ace or Knock Off having the same effect as normal but the same power as a slayer weapon. I was/am willing to forgo slayer weapons as a sort of balance as well as a roleplaying quirk, since Renny would probably not want to use weapons... although fighting as a pokemon technically isn't much better... but people use funny logic justifying why some weapons are more or less moral than others!

One thing that people might bring up is that Renny might have more elements to attack with in general since his move list determines the elements he has. Hence why I thought giving up slayer weapons was a bit of a fair trade. I mean, some slayer weapons are incredibly awesome. I mean, 50% freeze chance with the ice weapon? Absurd! Most attacking pokemon moves don't have status effects nearly as powerful as slayer weapons!

Meh. If Pierce gets a custom Dragon/Ghost Slave, I don't see why Renny can't forgo Slayer weapons for a power boost to his Pokebrid moves.

[Menarker]

Well, Renny doesn't have Togekiss out all the time.
Anyhow, the crux of the realization is that you guys were thinking that the rage that Renny DID get while using the item didn't seem excessive at first glance and that it should be ok to keep observing. Now, we realize that all this time, Pierce and Charlotte were effectively 15+ rage (3 turns worth of trainer attack) ahead of him. So his item effectively only served to break even if not a little more since he himself didn't use Trainer Attack, otherwise, he'd have more rage.

Also, Follow Me doesn't work with Togekiss's item. The item works when the ally is hit. Preventing said ally from getting hit such as with Follow Me doesn't trigger the item. The fact that Renny would get rage from that only stems from the basic rule that the owner of the pokemon that is hit get rage.


Basically, I would see the boost to pokebrid moves being more along the line of...

Renny wants to become stronger so he can help others aside from using his pokemons. However, he feels that his young age and relatively lithe size limits him as a slayer in terms of combat strength. He goes Pokebrid and gets a pokemon form which presumably can fight on its own merit. Then he goes Slayer. He uses the slayers tactics and strength training to boost his pokebrid fighting ability, just as how being a pokebrid gives him the strength to feasibly become strong enough to handle it in the first place. Forgoing weapons naturally means he has to work on using his pokemon's natural form and any hands-on combat techniques that being a Slayer can teach him to boost his ability to fight.

Mind you, I only say forgoing Slayer Weapons. I still intend to use the armors, the accessories and the RDPA.

I asked AB about this before, and he said that was A-OK.

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Also, Impact gets exclusive access to Full Demonship. He doesn't get to complain.

Well, I dunno if Dante or Bard wants to attempt to try Full Demonship. However, I won't even touch a single level of Half-Demon, so you can be sure that I won't challenge him.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Do we get rage from trainer attacks? I don't think we should.

I never complained about Togekiss's special item.

As shocking as it may seem, Charlotte probably won't go for any form of Demon classes. Full or otherwise. She will likely continue to take ranks in Breeder and maybe a few in Snagger if applicable. She simply doesn't trust the Demon shit, no matter how appealing it may seem.

[Menarker]

That's what I thought too. I thought and Gem thought that Trainer Attacks weren't supposed to give rage, but Drac said that you and he have been getting rage as if they were normal pokemon attacks.

Anyhow, that's why I'm a slight bit iffy on my new Trainer Action. Normally, all it does is alter who gets the rage that would be given to Renny when his pokemons attacks. However, I added that little bonus of gaining minimal rage if he doesn't give rage to anyone to prevent it from being useless in the off-chance there is no one really worth giving it to in the meantime. (Or if Renny can't spare giving it to anyone else.)

AB said that Breeders and Snaggers don't mesh together. That he wouldn't bother trying to fix it so the two could mix properly in the first place. Kinda a shame. If the snagger class offered something like "get two more pokemons", I'd probably give up Pokemon Breeder 1, so I could recruit Snorlax and Latias to my team. ^^


I do recall you saying you were thinking of going Pokebrid though. Spiritomb being one of the ones you thought of.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Yeah but the Pokebrid thing was meant for the 2nd PC on the botched secondary RP. The concept may be reused on the sidequest, but if Charlotte doesn't trust the Magatam demon thing, she probably wouldn't trust any sort of Pokebrid surgery.