Iraq doesn't want us there...

[Sky Warrior Bob]

http://start.earthlink.net/newsartic...837VIT00_story

Basically, a poll was done & more than half of the Iraq population thinks it'd be better off if we left. At least Blair's interpretation says the new Iraq government can ask us to leave, but then others in the Bush said that was a no-no.

Well anyway, discuss as you will.

SWB

[Squishy Cheeks]

Gee I figured them shooting at us was the first clue that they didn't want us there. I know I interpret someone shooting at me, to mean they don't want me there.

[Toastburner B]

Of course they want us to leave. Heck, I want us to leave, too. No one likes another country being in charge of their country.

Unfortunately, we have to stay, at least for the time being.

Serious, we leave now, the entire place will erupt. You think its bad now, imagine what would happen if we pulled out. Everyone with a group of thugs would try to become the leader. You'd get another Saddam in power, or someone worse.

Yes, it's a mess. It's also our mess, so we have to hang around to clean it up. We take off now, everything falls apart. The Interrim Government isn't strong enough to support itself yet, in my opinion.

So, yeah. Leave as soon as we can without there being a power vacuum when we leave.

[Tanxadillo]

We were never even supposed to be there in the first place. You all probably have heard of the "Oil" Theory.

[Trev-MUN Hates AOL]

Of course we have. #1 law of Gulf War II discussion: Once the war is mentioned, it takes less than five posts (or lines in a chat room) for someone to scream or insinuate that it was all about the oil.

Personally, if most of Iraq doesn't want us there, we should go after autononmy is given. Hopefully Iraq's new government will be able to stand on its own two feet, but ...

[Viper Daimao]

i know i've heard of the stupid oil theory. of course im not stupid, so i never believed it.


of course the iraqis dont want us there(though i dont believe that poll counted Kurds), however, it is nessassary. Especially given this. Luckily the Iraqi Prime minister has said that he wants us to stay until they can handle all security themselves, which seems to be happening at an increasing rate. I mean hell, we still have troops in Germany and other countries in Europe. (of course they dont want us to leave since our soldiers provide such a boost to their local economy)


from Andrew Sullivan

SILVER LININGS? Hard to find - but they do exist. 63 percent are happy to have an interim Iraqi government after June 30; 51 percent feel "very safe" in their neighborhoods; 64 percent say that the conflicts in Fallujah and Karbala have made Iraq more unified; 51 percent are now more interested in joining the Iraqi security forces than they were three months ago; 87 percent believe that the Iraqi security forces will be capable of keeping order without the help of the coalition forces. Abu Ghraib didn't have much of an impact. Most Iraqis say that the abuses are what they expect from Americans (54 percent believe all Americans are like Lynndie England). But the fundamental reason that U.S. forces are opposed is because they are viewed as an occupation, not because of their conduct. Most believe that the violence is a function of a collapse in respect for the Coalition forces and a function of external meddling (which gets it roughly right). The obvious conclusion is that we have lost the window of opportunity to use the good will gained from the ouster of Saddam to leverage a pro-American democracy in non-Kurdish Iraq. But a democracy is still possible, and it's hard to think of a more rational way forward than the one now proposed. The task now is to achieve some kind of workable pluralist, non-Islamist government that will not be a major anti-American force in the region. That's much better than leaving Saddam in power; but it's far less than we might once have hoped for. Maybe in a decade or so, we'll see the real fruits of this noble, flawed experiment. I'm still hoping.

[Toastburner B]

Originally Posted by Viper Daimao

of course the iraqis dont want us there, however, it is nessassary. Especially given this.

Cripes almighty! Do you know if that's been confirmed or not? That's the first I heard about that.

sheesh...thats all we need, another Iraq-Iran war...

[Viper Daimao]

Only source has been a Saudi paper. and of course Iran denies it.

[The Tortured one]

Viper, I liked your post, and for the record I am pro-war on terror, but four battalions?! that's less then 2000 men! what are they gonna do, throw rocks at our tanks?

I just found it amusing that my military college can mass more troops than the entire state of Iran.

that'd make as much sense as Canada invading the U.S.

[Feuermachtspass]

I don't think that Iraq is ready for a democracy. Democracy is all well and good here in America, but that doesn't mean it will work elsewhere. I mean, look at Europe. They may have become "democracies" but in reality, they have achieved only socialism. In a Democracy, the majority rules. In Europe, the majority gives all of its money to subsidized programs and the poor, so the minority rules. Europe isn't really any more ready for democracy than Iraq.

Look at what happened after WWI. Kaiser Wilhelm was no longer in power, and they set up the Weimar Republic. Which then degenerated into the dictatorship of Adolf Hitler. I think that making Iraq into a democracy will end up similarly: with a new dictator.