The Death Penalty

[The Devil Himself]

I'd like to know what everyone's mood on the Death Penalty is.

[Martyr]

You don't care what we think!
You just want to stir up trouble now that theis forum has finally achieved peace in our unified hatred of Lloyd Heart.
You devil!

For the record, though, the death penalty is infinitely wiser than keeping people in prison. Draining our tax dollars. Threatening to get out as old men and causing a suicidal/homicidal bloodbath...

Let's just get rid of the bastards. No kidding. Anybody who's got something crazy, like 80-800 years, man, screw that. Just whack 'em. And screw ceremony. Get a freaking pistol, walk to the cell, and tip the custodial staff.

Hmm...I have a feeling this is going to be a touchy subject for some. It's also fairly complex. There are a lot of issues to consider here. I, for one, am for the death penalty depending on the case. But you can already see the problem in that, because one person's opinion may be completely opposite of another's, and its hard to say who should get to decide. So with that, I've basically said I'll support the death penalty as long as its not my responsibility to sentence, which doesn't seem right in some way, but again, who I am to decide who deserves to live or die?

I am generally cynical in nature, so I tend to think rehabilitation is not often successful. I also believe that everyone should understand the consqequences of their actions, which in the case of murder, the death penalty to me is a fitting consequence.

Wow, I didn't think this topic would be this hard for me to articulate.

Hmm...I was also thinking about issues with crowded prisons and repeat offenders. The whole "once a murderer always a murderer" thing, but its not always true, so that just goes around in a vicious cycle back to my first paragraph. There's also the issue with juvenile executions, executing innocent people, a lot of things that go into this.

Before I ramble any more, I'm going to conclude by saying that I am for the death penalty depending on the case. If I think of anything else, I'll post again.

[Wetflame]

Actually the Death Penalty is more expensive than you think, there are enourmous costs involved.

Also, many innocent people have been on death row.
There are lists if you want to search for them.
I remember our religion teacher showed us all this stuff.

I saw a very good program once, an 18 year old sentenced to Death row, "They treat us like kids up until we do something wrong, then they punish us like adults"
Very often people are given the death penalty for a single murder or a few murders, obviously that is very wrong but adding another body to the pile is hardly going to help.

It's a disgusting inhumane practice. The Death Penalty is a paradox in itself anyway. Kill people who kill.

[The Devil Himself]

My view is that if you kill a person who's killed, you're no better than them. And the Death Penalty is more expensive than putting someone in jail for life. And jails are mostly overcrowded because of a bunch of ridiculous laws (namely drug laws) that have been passed.

[Krylo]

Well, as you'll all come to know, I tend to have two very different views on just about every subject, which is a side effect of my having both a very sadistic and cold-hearted side and a very compassionate side. So, I'll just go ahead and argue both views.

My Sadistic Cold-Hearted And Often Self-Righteous Side Says: They killed someone, they deserve to die. And they deserve to die in exactly the same way they killed that person. Lethal injection? Bah! If they drug someone behind a car for 10 miles, drag them behind a car for twenty! If they skinned someone alive, skin THEM alive. Let the punishment fit the crime... and there's no punishment that fits better than repeating the crime on the offender. Besides... who wants to kill someone in a sick way if they're going to die that way too?

On the other hand, My Compassionate (and sometimes wimpy) Side has this to say: That's all fine and good, but there's a lot of problems with killing people for murder. In the first place it's our legal system's job to REFORM. The whole legal system is built around the idea that people can change, if a murderer can't change, then our whole legal system is flawed at it's most integral core. If people can't change then we should execute every criminal, shouldn't we? But obviously, not everyone gets out of prison after stealing and does it again... or killing... if we can reform them, that's what we should do. Instead of killing them, we should change the prison system to put more emphasis on reformation, and less on punishment. Now, I know some of you are going to say that the death penalty is a deterrent, but then why are their still murders in Texas and other states that support it? Obviously it doesn't work, or we wouldn't ever have to use it. That entire idea is flawed, all it is, is vengence, and shouldn't the law be above such petty pursuits as revenge? And all that aside... how about the innocents? Go and look at lists of people that were put on death row and then released when the real killer was caught... or even killed and THEN the real killer was caught. If we execute even one innocent person, then we're just as much murderers as the people that we're executing for the crime, aren't we? If an innocent person is killed by us, how are we exempt? Think about that.


Yah, I think that about covers both sides. I tend to side with my compassionate side on this, because the only infalliable arguement for the death penalty is the revenge angle... and the idea that the law should be above revenge is a good one. And not even my sadistic side is willing to argue money issues when there are people's lives at stake. That's just sick. (He would argue enjoyment... but just ignore him.)

[Martyr]

Look, I've no sympathy at all for the fools.
Not everybody who kills gets death and that's because not everybody who kills gets death.
Those who do deserve it more than others, so cut the "I'm so young" crap. Lots of kids die every day or week or whatever. So what if some of them happen to be a bad. I think I even care less about bad people.

And the paradox thing is juist a cop out. The death penalty is about cleansing the society of it's trash. If this was a more crual world, we could kill for petty crimes. Under those circumstances, all crime would grind to a dead halt. If we can start grinding rape and murder to a dead halt, even if we have mercy on some and lesser villains, then it ain't unethical, in my opinion.

According to the Bible, however, it isn't our right to judge. Right? Well, as far as I'm concerned, a white lie is as sinful as murder and the death penalty is as sinful as judging a SAT test score. So I'm discarding that evidence, especially since you can't preach to a non-Christian anyway. So find another argument.

What do you mean it's disgusting and inhuman anyway? Is it better to lock people up like animals or slaughter 'em? You tell me. I was thinking that we could cut costs by feeding prisoners the free meat off death row.

As far as innocents, well, that happens. Innocents will spend 50 years in jail too. Dunno if I'd rather die or spend 50 years in jail... Either way, I can't allow that to deter me. Not when so many innocents are dying or having their lives ruined outside of the court systems. The percentage of innocents on death row has to be small anyway. Isn't it?

Edit - Krylo brough up good points. Ironically, I never thought of this as a revenge issue. I still don't think that it is.
And the only reason death penalty is expensive is because there's so much legal crap that has to take place and death row inmates can be sitting in a cell for 12 to 15 years before they actually die. I'd rather hold a hanging outside the courthouse as soon as the conviction is finished.
I'd rather see this rule put in place and be the first innocent hanged for the damn cause.

[FunnyLooking]

Geez, all these people posted right before me...

<As far as innocents, well, that happens.>

Whoa! Explain to me the advantage of Death Penalty over Life in prison though? Seriously, when you really look at it, Death Penalty is either impractical unless you take it to an inhumane extreme.

<For the record, though, the death penalty is infinitely wiser than keeping people in prison. Draining our tax dollars.>

Doesn't death penalty cost about 10 times as much as keeping someone in prison per person? It seems illogical, but it's true. Logic steps aside to reality. Heh.

<It's a disgusting inhumane practice. The Death Penalty is a paradox in itself anyway. Kill people who kill.>

Another way to look at it is extremely fair justice. I mean, do to you what you do to someone else. Eye for an eye, if you will. So it makes sense, it's just not practical, if you ask me.

<Also, many innocent people have been on death row.>

That's the most dangerous thing about the death penalty. They found out these people were innocent, but they already killed them. What's done is done.

Another problem with the death penalty is, in fact, racial prejudgice. Although I dont have the sources, a black person was insanely more likely to receive the death penalty for the same crime if committed by a white person.

The death penalty is impractical, dangerous, and costly. It's completely worthless and outdated.

[Martyr]

Originally Posted by FunnyLooking

Another problem with the death penalty is, in fact, racial prejudgice. Although I dont have the sources, a black person was insanely more likely to receive the death penalty for the same crime if committed by a white person.

Thats because the jails are overrun with black people. With the NAACP breathing down the courts back, the black people recycle faster than white people, and whites often get high jail times. The longer they stay in, the longer there's white people in jail helping to equalize the race count. Likewise with black people getting out or getting death.

That's what I heard anyway. I'm pretty sure my source was reliable. So I'm white and I'm pretty lawful.

[Krylo]

The death penalty is about cleansing the society of it's trash.

How does it do that, exactly? You kill a murderer today, and a new one pops up tomorrow. You aren't cleansing anything... being a killer isn't a genetic disposition. Granted, being a socio/psychopath is, but we never kill them, do we? We just send them to mental facilities. All you're doing by killing people is the same exact thing that they did to get into prison in the first place.

Your entire arguement circles around the idea that life sucks and people die anyway. Given that logic, then what's the point of any criminal justice? People get killed and raped regardless of it, why bother trying to stop it? Or are you thinking, people die anyway, might as well help it along? Don't bring a horribly cynical and pessimistic view into an arguement like this, it's counter-productive, and it's a horribly weak arguement. Just because YOUR life sucks and you'd rather die than be locked up and try to appeal doesn't mean the rest of us would.

Under those circumstances, all crime would grind to a dead halt.

What's your basis for comparison? People are still murdered in states with the death penalty, knowing that they could be killed. People still killed each other in the old west, medieval europe, etc. when you would get the death penalty for far less. People killed people in babalonia where king Draco... or Dracon or whatever, made the first Draconian laws, which are infamous for how harsh they were. Murder was death, rape was removal of... organs. This was 100%, you got caught, it happened, there were no trials, just you're charged, there's a little evidence, and you die. People still killed each other. And people still stole even though getting caught meant they'd lose a hand, or an eye, or whatever other body part the law felt it was fair to take. And don't think that's because it wasn't known, that's the other thing draconian law was famous for. It was the first law in which the ruler made sure all the people knew it. It doesn't work as a deterrent, it hasn't for the the thousands of years that man has existed on this planet, and it's simply foolish to think that it's going to start now.