9/11 Loose Change part 2

[adamark]

So recently the 2nd edition of 9/11 Loose Change was released.

I was very skeptical of it, because I am very biased against conspiracy theories and such.

After watching all 80 minutes of it, I have to say that I am a little more disturbed by the evidence they present in the video. Especially about how the twin towers collapsed and how no other building in the history of man kind has fallen because of fire.

I don't know, I don't necessarily believe it, but 1 anomaly can be explain or even dismissed, but that many anomalies points to something greater.

Please watch the entire video before posting a comment.

[Toastburner B]

I don't have time to watch it at the moment, so I went over to Wikipedia and read about it.

For your anti-conspiracy needs, may I suggest this this Popular Mechanics article. It covers everything from the seismographs to WTC 7 falling, to providing a picture of wreckage at the Pentagon.

Also, according to Wikipedia, one of the major claims is the standard "it was a missile, not a plane!" theory. This seems destined to be debunked due to the fact that videos of the plane hitting are being released sometime today.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Holy shit, dude. That's even better than "In Plane Sight". I'm ordering a dvd copy today.

Now, I used to be one of those guys who said "all of those conspiracy theorists are just insane." But, come on, you can't argue with any of that.

And Toastburner, THAT VIDEO EVIDENCE PROVES NOTHING. I saw it on the news and it shows NOTHING more than we've already seen...no plane.

[Toastburner B]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

Now, I used to be one of those guys who said "all of those conspiracy theorists are just insane." But, come on, you can't argue with any of that.

Actually, yes you can.

There is even a viewing guide that brings up evidence that shoots down the movie as it goes. (it's a .doc file...but it's 5MB long).

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

And Toastburner, THAT VIDEO EVIDENCE PROVES NOTHING. I saw it on the news and it shows NOTHING more than we've already seen...no plane.

Yeah...just watched the video. Less than impressive.

Of course, there is more than enough proof that it wasn't a missile.

Such as this picture of plane wreckage at the Pentagon.



Or, you know, eyewitness testimony of what they saw. There's another one at the Popular Mechanics site.

Of course...all these guys are just part of the conspiracy according to these Loose Change guys, right?

[Bob The Mercenary]

That's one piece of plane hull. It's not even singed. Where are the engines, the cockpit, the black boxes for god's sake.

I read the first two articles you posted and am in the middle of the 5m doc file. Pretty interesting stuff. My moods with this issue have gone from purely a Bush-defender, to in the middle, to Bush-hater, to back to the middle. I might just remain in the middle for a while. It's safer there. =/

[Althane]

Blown all over the lawn, of course.

I'm really not into this conspiracy theories. If they wanted to get us united against a common enemy (which we definantly aren't), it would have taken less than that. Well, more than that, for a longer purpose, but less than that for a short term. Probably only one twin tower, or the Empire State Building (really, if you were planning on striking fear into people, that would be the tower to aim at. It's such a well known tower. That, and the white house, not the fucking pentagon. Incopotent idiotic terrorists. Sheesh) would be sufficient.

Right now, I'm in the middle, but leaning closer to being a Bush-defender. So, right-wing liberal, I guess? I dunno.

Anyways, I have SERIOUS doubts that the government can work together long enough to keep secret something this public for more than five years. First rule of thumb: More people who know about it, greater the chances of leak. To pull this off, you must of had dozens of people who knew about it. There would have been a tiny leak by now that would crack the entire thing open.

[ApathyMan]

Originally Posted by Bob the Mercenary

That's one piece of plane hull. It's not even singed. Where are the engines, the cockpit, the black boxes for god's sake.

What? You need a picture of all those?

Read the Popular Mechanics article, they interviewed the guy who found the black boxes.

Here's a damn fine question: Why would the government use a cargo plane for the first building, a commercial plane for the second building, and a missile for the Pentagon? I mean... that just doesn't make any sense.

Also... many of these aren't even anomalies, such as the whole "Jet-fuel temperature" bullshit or the supposed "puffs of smoke coming out of the WTC buildings."

There are a few things that might be suspect as well, such as the stock-market trading thing. However, this article shows a different perspective on the situation.

I think the title of the film sums up how much regard I put into it: It's just a bunch of loose change.

[Althane]

AND crash a plane in Penn State?

Ok, I'm moving into conspiracy mode, be warned.

First, the World Trade Centers. These were struck because they are a major symbol of New York, not to mention a, y'know, trade center. However, the government conspiracy hit these because they knew when losses would be minor, and they calculated that they could bring them down, as well as the impact that these would have upon the American people.

Second, the Pentagon. It's the fucking Pentagon. A strike here is a strike against the military, and our defenses (not much though). Why the GC would have hit it? Again, a visible building for the American people to rally around. Plus, a good target, as they knew certain sections would be closed.

Third, the Pennsylvania one. Allowed to crash because America needed heros to rally around, and these people worked excellently for this job. I mean, look at the United 93 movie that came out.

Alright, if I was planning these attacks, and knew that I had four planes, with the chance that one would go down, my targets would be as follows:

1) White House. It's where the President lives, and an attack here may catch him, and end up with America leaderless. Primo target.

2) The Capitol. One of the most visible symbols in America. Catch Congress in there, and damage to the government is possibly beyond repair, assuming you caught enough in there.

3/4) Target in New York. Starting with Empire State Building, then Statue of Liberty if the fourth plane makes it the whole way through.

Again, my strikes would be far more effective against our country than the ones that were done. In a mental stance at least. As for a physical blow? Probably the first two, along with some kitties.

[Toastburner B]

Originally Posted by Althane

Anyways, I have SERIOUS doubts that the government can work together long enough to keep secret something this public for more than five years. First rule of thumb: More people who know about it, greater the chances of leak. To pull this off, you must of had dozens of people who knew about it. There would have been a tiny leak by now that would crack the entire thing open.

More like hundreds, actually.

From what I've read, the movie claims that the passengers of Flight 93 were offloaded in Cleveland. There were about 40 people (if you discount the presence of hijackers) that were offloaded. Now...unless you believe the government killed them all, that's 40 people who simply vanished.

You would also have to assume that most of the people who reported seeing an airplane at the Pentagon(it should be noted that a few people claim to have seen a windowless plane hit the Pentagon, but that's a different conspiracy)...and in Shanksville were part of the conspiracy.

The government can't even keep quite on phone taps, you think it could of kept something like this a secret for so long?

[ApathyMan]

Originally Posted by Althane

First, the World Trade Centers. These were struck because they are a major symbol of New York, not to mention a, y'know, trade center. However, the government conspiracy hit these because they knew when losses would be minor, and they calculated that they could bring them down, as well as the impact that these would have upon the American people.

Second, the Pentagon. It's the fucking Pentagon. A strike here is a strike against the military, and our defenses (not much though). Why the GC would have hit it? Again, a visible building for the American people to rally around. Plus, a good target, as they knew certain sections would be closed.

Third, the Pennsylvania one. Allowed to crash because America needed heros to rally around, and these people worked excellently for this job. I mean, look at the United 93 movie that came out.

Fantastic. Unfortunately, one would need evidence to back up such claims.

That's the thing about conspiracy theories - the term is largely inaccurate. They're more like conspiracy conjectures or conspiracy hypotheses.