A conversation about conversations about bigotry - Page 10

Nique · 07-30-2012, 01:43 AM

Not having to be aware of racism or other forms of bigotry and discrimination is a matter of privilege (usually white privilege) and actually contributes to the oppression of under-represented groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad

One day, it may come to pass, that racism and bigotry and sexism die out in the world.

They certainly have in my heart.

If those ideas have died in your heart, then it would definitely be the time to stop being upset that someone draws attention to these very real problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad

It also explained why I hate Liz focusing on those issues so much... It's that those things still exist for Liz to post about.

Like, this is a pretty meaningful epiphany and I would keep rolling with that and see where it takes you.

Overcast · 07-30-2012, 01:58 AM

Can someone change the title to a discussion about Liz? I really don't mind him myself, his habits seem born of a genuine concern for the subjects he believes in and a long existing need for people on this forum to mix serious discussion with undercutting snide banter that seeks to not only prove you are wrong, but that you are incapable of understanding how to be right.

Despite what Token said I remember it being very much two extremes since I joined with my first account 9 years ago.

I'll admit while I started my part in this thread as civilly as I could muster even I began to get dragged into an opinionated attempt to make her look like a hypocrite by pointing out prior generalizations she made on military members. One worse in an attempt to not seem weak by comparison to her unyielding surety in her opinion I generalized us as needing to be absolutely joking rather than my genuine opinion that joking is important, but that there is a fine line between challenging and reimforcing stereotypes. Which Token genuinely shamed me for.

I don't honestly know what the solution tp the habit is, maybe being aware of it might help. But I can't be sure.

greed · 07-30-2012, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nique

See guys; An endorsement by greed. What more could you ask for?

I am the impartial and ultimate arbiter of quality with truly impeccable taste.

Marc v4.0 · 07-30-2012, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

Can someone change the title to a discussion about Liz? I really don't mind him myself, his habits seem born of a genuine concern for the subjects he believes in and a long existing need for people on this forum to mix serious discussion with undercutting snide banter that seeks to not only prove you are wrong, but that you are incapable of understanding how to be right.

Despite what Token said I remember it being very much two extremes since I joined with my first account 9 years ago.

I'll admit while I started my part in this thread as civilly as I could muster even I began to get dragged into an opinionated attempt to make him look like a hypocrite by pointing out prior generalizations he made on military members. One worse in an attempt to not seem weak by comparison to his unyielding surety in his opinion I generalized us as needing to be absolutely joking rather than my genuine opinion that joking is important, but that there is a fine line between challenging and reimforcing stereotypes. Which Token genuinely shamed me for.

I don't honestly know what the solution tp the habit is, maybe being aware of it might help. But I can't be sure.

Her.

Edit: I don't know why this really bothers me so much, but it really does and it might be really nitpicky to call out if Liz doesn't care but If I didn't say anything I think I would have eaten my own brain.

Thadius · 07-30-2012, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nique

Like, this is a pretty meaningful epiphany and I would keep rolling with that and see where it takes you.

Looked into it, reporting findings.

I do not judge based on appearance at all. Do not judge based on sex, gender, race, what have you. It means jack all to me because I was raised better to begin with, but e'er since, I adopted my raising into my own philosophy that I do my damnedest to live by. Short and simple, but it's really all I need:

We're all human. If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? I think Shakespeare said that, but if I'm wrong, do correct me.

Where I take offense is where people enforce this meaningless bias, this pointless hate. I know it exists out there, and that it's a big, huge, ugly THING on the horizon that may very well come to call one day. I can look away from that and fight it as best I can by being a calm, rational, nice person that does not judge based on those things. I can also hope that by doing so I lead by example and cause more people to not be hatemongers.

There is enough hate out there that I feel, really, that we could do without putting it on the Internet.

And then we have Liz...

I understand that Lizposts serve a vital function, they remind us that these issues exist and we should still be doing something about them. Really, though, I could do with fewer of them in my life.

I would liken it to when Snake jokingly went full Brony on us.

Except Snake at least was good during that bit. Liz has been doing this for a while, and the only good thing about these posts is...

I'll get back to you when I think of something.

Overcast · 07-30-2012, 02:15 AM

No you're right Marc, I was hiding in RP for the switch from Nonsie to Liz so the identifying pronoun switch wasn't cemented in my skull.

Marelo · 07-30-2012, 02:16 AM

That is very insensitive to people who do not have blood, Thadius. As a person whose body is run and regulated by a collection of gas-filled bladders, I want you to know that you've hurt me and my standing in our society with your exclusionary rhetoric.

Marelo · 07-30-2012, 02:19 AM

On a more serious note, maybe it's not that there were too many "Lizposts" but that there was too much sexism and racism and transphobia and homophobia for Liz to hold her tongue.

Like Nique says, being able to avoid discussion and thought revolving around these issues is a form of privilege that contributes to their continuance as problems.

Nique · 07-30-2012, 02:20 AM

I have to get to bed or else I'd respond in more detail.

Thad, I think you have missed my point which was that ignoring these issues contributes to many of them continuing to exist.

Meister · 07-30-2012, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overcast

Can someone change the title to a discussion about Liz?

No one who has been around here for any time at all is gonna read the current title and think "you know whom I bet this can't possibly involve?"

07-30-2012, 01:58 AM	#92
Overcast Cinderella Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trespassing in the graveyard Posts: 3,076	Can someone change the title to a discussion about Liz? I really don't mind him myself, his habits seem born of a genuine concern for the subjects he believes in and a long existing need for people on this forum to mix serious discussion with undercutting snide banter that seeks to not only prove you are wrong, but that you are incapable of understanding how to be right. Despite what Token said I remember it being very much two extremes since I joined with my first account 9 years ago. I'll admit while I started my part in this thread as civilly as I could muster even I began to get dragged into an opinionated attempt to make her look like a hypocrite by pointing out prior generalizations she made on military members. One worse in an attempt to not seem weak by comparison to her unyielding surety in her opinion I generalized us as needing to be absolutely joking rather than my genuine opinion that joking is important, but that there is a fine line between challenging and reimforcing stereotypes. Which Token genuinely shamed me for. I don't honestly know what the solution tp the habit is, maybe being aware of it might help. But I can't be sure. __________________ Time to bust out the glow sticks! Last edited by Overcast; 07-30-2012 at 02:17 AM.

07-30-2012, 02:15 AM	#96
Overcast Cinderella Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Trespassing in the graveyard Posts: 3,076	No you're right Marc, I was hiding in RP for the switch from Nonsie to Liz so the identifying pronoun switch wasn't cemented in my skull. __________________ Time to bust out the glow sticks!

07-30-2012, 02:16 AM	#97
Marelo Napoleon Impersonator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 816	That is very insensitive to people who do not have blood, Thadius. As a person whose body is run and regulated by a collection of gas-filled bladders, I want you to know that you've hurt me and my standing in our society with your exclusionary rhetoric.

07-30-2012, 02:19 AM	#98
Marelo Napoleon Impersonator Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 816	On a more serious note, maybe it's not that there were too many "Lizposts" but that there was too much sexism and racism and transphobia and homophobia for Liz to hold her tongue. Like Nique says, being able to avoid discussion and thought revolving around these issues is a form of privilege that contributes to their continuance as problems.