If you live in the United States, you should be disgusted with your country

[Nique]

Originally Posted by Red Mage Black

I'm sorry, I don't see the instance of racism here and here are the facts I know. Can somebody point it out? I've gone through this whole thread with overwhelming bias against police. So can somebody who has a neutral stance on law enforcement answer me?

Try to read the following as neutrally as possible - it's meant without any insult, but it is terse:

This is probably because you don't actually understand what racism is or at least not the far reaching and still present implications of it in society at large. There are many, MANY resources available to you by which you can educate yourself on this subject.

Also, just because someone doesn't have a 'neutral' stance on law enforcement doesn't mean that they are bias. I have had mostly great experiences with police and through the majority of my life felt like the majority were trustworthy. Once I began actually learning about the pattern of police misconduct and the culture that breeds it, my opinion became increasingly negative - so, actually, my positive 'bias' became a more informed and objective, rational opinion.

[Daimo Mac, The Blue Light of Hope]

Originally Posted by McTahr

Nikose,
Exactly. We're in agreement. I'm not calling for complacency or for people to sit back down. I'm trying to say that people should take this rage, and use it to fuel some actual change. Do something with it. Go forth and change minds. If the populace majority believes this, it's harder to get away with.

Daimo,
This exact thing was brought up by Nikose and I pretty much nodded that yep, it was a pretty shitty example.

I cannot realistically answer that question. I do not have the experience a lifetime of dehumanization and oppression in order to appropriately answer that question. I am angry. I am angry to the point that I shake with rage when I talk about these issues, especially with those who think nothing is wrong or want to maintain the status quo. However, I do everything in my power to try and convince and convert rather than polarize and drive away.

I cannot, with respect to their entire culture, claim that I would or would not necessarily have the patience to do so were I in their shoes. I just simply do not have that experience. That's why I'm not trying to say they're wrong for being angry. They have every right to be and I'm not going to say they shouldn't rage or lash out.
I'm simply saying it's probably counterproductive in most cases.

I had made my post before you guys posted so if it seems like I was copying, that was an accident.

Funnily enough, the USA was built on people lashing out against the authority.

[Kim]

Token, everything you've said is 100% correct and I'm so incredibly sorry you've had to put up with this forum's limp-dicked liberalism for so long and watch as people dismiss your rightful anger and even defend this shit. I hope wherever you go from here it's a much better place because you deserve better.

[Nique]

Originally Posted by Token

the fact that they are trained to profile racial minorities

It takes very little digging to confirm this. DIRECT Quote from a police officer in liberal-central, Portland: "...You [said to high school students but, ostensibly, meaning their taxpaying parents] pay us to stereotype."

Yes, some officers carry PERSONAL moral compunctions which make them act with dignity towards everybody, but this is clearly overridden in many officers by the larger pressure to adopt bigoted and paranoid attitude towards the civilians, and especially minorities.

[Marc v4.0]

Originally Posted by Nique

Also, just because someone doesn't have a 'neutral' stance on law enforcement doesn't mean that they are bias. I have had mostly great experiences with police and through the majority of my life felt like the majority were trustworthy. Once I began actually learning about the pattern of police misconduct and the culture that breeds it, my opinion became increasingly negative - so, actually, my positive 'bias' became a more informed and objective, rational opinion.

This is the same place I come from. I've never had a bad experience with a police officer in my life and have, in fact, had wonderful interactions with officers who really should have given me a ticket, or faulted me in some manner, or even given me a warning.

Once I started looking, reading, seeking out the knowledge of freely available and the actions put on display, It became impossible to ignore.

[McTahr]

Originally Posted by Token

snip

I don't know, Token. I don't know.

The moderation of the forum has tried it's hardest to consistently present an equal space for all members. This can be particularly tricky when you want to choke the backwoods fuck who is hating on the "Queer, black, trans, disabled, it doesn't fucking matter," people in whatever discussion is going down. It's why I so often just steer clear.

I've been proven wrong, and I've brought up a lot of bad examples. MLK as a white-washed race card was a particularly poor choice, for which I apologize. I have been shown where I was wrong. And here's the clincher: Had people simply responded with violence and vitriol to that misunderstanding, I probably never would have learned. The world is full of tons of people who just haven't had the life experience or the occasion to learn certain things. Polarizing them is the worst possible course of action.

Edit: RMB, if you could add more to the discussion than racist talking points, I would be particularly amenable to that approach.

[Ryanderman]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MP8Of6gbZaM

http://www.stltoday.com/online/pdf-a...a4bcf6878.html

http://online.wsj.com/articles/polic...ing-1408108371

http://www.firearmsid.com/a_distancegsr.htm

@Snake: Nothing was stolen. He pushed the clerk who spoke to him when he entered in the photograph. You can see on the security camera photos him enter the store, physically accost someone, and leave. The owner who was accosted stated explicitly that he did not get robbed and he did not report it to the police.

And you're right- it SHOULDN'T matter. If cops bring in White Mass Murderers unharmed, I'm pretty sure jaywalking isn't a death sentence.

The testimony of Brown's friend who was with him indicates that he at least, was pretty convinced that Michael Brown stole cigarillos. Is there something out there that I haven't seen that discredits that testimony?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slate...testimony.html

I agree though, that it's distracting to talk about the robbery. He guilt, if he is guilty, doesn't justify his murder. It's not about the robbery. But it would be good to have the facts straight.

[McTahr]

Wilson did not know about the alleged robbery. It literally changes nothing. It is a distraction and nothing more.

[Red Mage Black]

You're right Snake, I'm not a lawyer. but I am a person with an opinion and with access to as much information as you have to form said opinion. It doesn't make your opinion any more correct than mine, hate to point out and all the righteous anger you're throwing out doesn't make it more correct, either.

If he was indicted, I wouldn't have been surprised either. Though you guys are acting out on emotion. Appeal to emotion does diddly shit to convince me of anything and I prefer facts over sensationalism. Everyone's stories change when testifying, even you as a lawyer should know that and that's what lawyers count on. Did they grill him? Certainly not. but what's done is done and people still want to make up their own story with this case.

I'm not sure why people on here honestly believe that if they bring up a controversial topic on here, that they'll be met with everyone agreeing. If that happened, it wouldn't even be a discussion. I'd prefer we didn't play assgrab and backpat for having the perceived right opinion on a topic.

EDIT: Including mine.

I just find the fact you guys perceive burning down someone's business is justified and half the town, too. Hell, even Trayvon's case was more controversial than this one and I'm surprised no one went rioting then.

And Kim? Trying to keep the peace is more preferable than starting a war, but that's all you seem to want to do. Maybe I should just leave this thread to the assgrabbing that was going on here before.

Ryanderman? You're not going to find the straight facts here. You might be better off to keep digging by yourself, form your own opinion and not let it be poisoned by others.

[Ryanderman]

Originally Posted by McTahr

Wilson did not know about the alleged robbery. It literally changes nothing. It is a distraction and nothing more.

I agree. But I'd like to know the facts, such as they are.