#1138: "The omnipotent jackass just jacked his own ass!"

[Nezz]

It seems to me it's only predetermined because Sarda thought it was. If Sarda had the attitude he could do whatever the hell he wanted with time then he always would have done things in the best possible manner, and would always see it as such. Instead he has the idea that he can't change it, so he's limited by the fact that he resigns himself to time.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by krogothwolf

Should get that wife of yours to go over your stuff again :p

Quiet, you!

Originally Posted by AngelFoodBB

So if Sarda decided to blast them before they were strong enough to withstand it...then what?

The whole "predetermined" thing makes no sense if one person with ultimate power has knowledge of said future.

Only thing that we can draw is this version of Sarda doesn't want to not exist so he doesn't mess with anything when he logically could. Had he killed them before these events sarda would be unmade as onion kid wouldn't have done what he would have done.

Originally Posted by Nezz

It seems to me it's only predetermined because Sarda thought it was. If Sarda had the attitude he could do whatever the hell he wanted with time then he always would have done things in the best possible manner, and would always see it as such. Instead he has the idea that he can't change it, so he's limited by the fact that he resigns himself to time.

AngelFoodBB - they're still not strong enough to withstand it. Sarda just killed them. In fact, he's killed them (or at least damaged them all severely) more than once before. He's just doing this because he wants too, yeah.

Nezz - the question is whether or not Sarda has tried. And, in fact, he has. He's failed, too. He sent WM to a "pocket dimension" to ensure that she wouldn't be sent back in time... which sent her back in time. He - as and adult Onion Kid - spent all of his magic in order to get to the beginning of the universe, just to find out that he's too late, and everythings happend as it was 'destined' to. He's tried to teach Black Mage how to be a good person and what morality means by making time itself stop for a while, thus probably negating BM's evil... and failed. No, Sarda has made numerous attempts to alter the course of history, but history - in the 8-Bit universe - is inevitable, at least as far as the time-loop is concerned. Thus, Sarda - in my opinion anyway - has shown that he doesn't want to be stuck in a perpetual time loop of existance, but he has anyway. I don't think Sarda knew, for sure, that they hadn't done the evil to Onion Kid, yet. Maybe he did, but I'm not sure. Obviously, things hadn't gotten far enough in the future for his memories to have coalesced into what he'd seen before, but... anyway. Just my (rushed) think on that.

[krogothwolf]

Or Sarda could just be doing that as he knows it what he has to do in order for time to flow normally. He could have killed them off with a single magic attack at any time but never even tried. He probably doesn't really care and just is following his own destiny and not really trying to change it.

And... I SHALL NEVER BE HUSHED!

[Orestes]

Originally Posted by Nuklear Waste

We've seen the whole "Red Mage says something he doesn't know can be interpreted sexually" before, but man do I love receiving it.

Also, pretty much everything Red Mage has said in the past 15ish comics has been immediately refuted:

"You already did that." Then the tendrils hurt White Mage.
"Maybe she's okay." lol
"Yeah. I do." / "I won't let you destroy the world." NO EPIC BATTLE FOR YOU!
"You are the end boss!" Well, that was partially true.
"But we didn't help!" Sometimes.
"we'll kill the younger you so you never grow up and this never happens!" Nah.
"You could have stopped us!" Nope.
And now this.

Disagree on that last one. There's absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Sarda couldn't have stopped them except for Sarda's highly questionable say-so, and all other available evidence points to the much likelier proposition that he could have, had he ever bothered to try. Since he was so busy being convinced he couldn't, he of course never tried, and therefore, he didn't. But had he even once tried to stop them, it's pretty difficult to come up with any plausible way he could have failed, and with his foreknowledge of their actions, it could never be argued he didn't try to stop them because he didn't yet know what they were going to do.

Therefore, the time loop only works because Sarda spends most of the comic ensuring that it does. Replace Sarda with an otherwise identical character whose only difference is a consistent desire to change what happened, and the whole loop falls apart spectacularly.

This is one the reasons the time loop just isn't logically consistent. The comic's cute and fun, but I still contend we're simply not breaking any major ground in terms of creating a logically consistent time loop here.

You can, by the way, make a logically consistent argument for non-theological determinism. This just isn't that argument, as no one having any foreknowledge whatsoever of all events that are "going" to take place is actually one of the prerequisites for making it work. It's precisely their lack of foreknowledge that causes them to bumble predictably into the actions that their exact combination of genetic makeup and life experience to date would lead them to take. The moment you grant them foreknowledge of that, you almost guarantee they're going to do something else, even if it's for no better reason than human beings tend to be extremely perverse creatures. Or to put it another way, you just introduced another variable into the complex equations that describe their lives, and oops, that just completely changed the equations.

So in conclusion, I'm calling Sarda out as full of ****. Unless you're being coerced by a separate outside force (like God saying "this is the way it is no matter what" in the Christian idea of theological determinism) aside from the sequence of events themselves, you absolutely cannot claim you know what's going to happen, yet cannot change it, regardless of having sufficient power and opportunity to do so effortlessly. It's a fundamentally incoherent claim.

Edit: Oh, and just to be perfectly clear, claims that Sarda did try are also silly. All he ever had to do was kill the Light Warriors. This is not rocket science. He's powerful enough to have killed them any time he chose. Even if he wanted to try other things first, he had plenty of time to try them, give up on them, and then just go for the kill instead. He simply didn't do it, but that does nothing to prove the claim that he couldn't.

Edit 2: Although, hm. What if Sarda's also genetically predisposed to be a fatalistic loser who gives up after exactly one try, no matter what's changed since then? I suppose then you could sort of say he was always going to take the most pathetic, ineffective road because he's just naturally predisposed to be pathetic and ineffective, so that even armed with nigh-omnipotence and foreknowledge of future events, he still couldn't muster the intestinal fortitude to do something as simple as make one more minimal effort and just kill the people he already knows are going to make his life miserable.

But then where did he get the motivation and dedication to study so hard and become so powerful? And why make all of the other minimal efforts he made in moving the Light Warriors all over the place?

No, even then, it still doesn't make any sense. :stressed:

[Desgami]

"We'll jack it right off!"

I love you so much.

[tshadowdrag]

Silly red mage and his wordings. What would the universe be like without you? Great comic

[SaintRCat]

Here we go. Pure ultimate proof that Black Mage is more evil than Sarda.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/2008/06/...-of-hardships/

Sarda has been turned into nothing but hatred. Black Mage not only has hatred (his own doubled + that of the 4 Fiends) but also lust for White Mage. And greed, considering that he had to face the Ordeal of Avarice.

There, it's been proven forever. And since the lesser of two evils always wins in this comic, Sarda will win.

Of course, if we assume that Black Mage has always been the most evil, then the most evil group always wins. If so, then Sarda loses!

What a quandry.

[Chocobo]

Actually, didn't he only have to face the Ordeal of Avarice because Thief tricked him? I don't remember.

[Spekkio]

I can't believe people are still trying to apply logic to this comic. I have given up that futile exercise, completely.

[Molotovich]

Originally Posted by Spekkio

I can't believe people are still trying to apply logic to this comic. I have given up that futile exercise, completely.

SHUN THE UNBELIEVER... SHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNN!!!!11!!: stressed: