Used Games = Piracy?

[Krylo]

Well: "according to John Hight, Director of Product Development at Sony Computer Entertainment, God of War III cost $44 million to develop. The average cost of creating a game today sits at $18-28 million dollars"

I've seen 3-10 million as numbers for the PS2 era, but I can't actually find any data after some googling, so take that with a grain of salt.

Edit: wait, here we are: Here’s the problem as I see it: Production values have risen to a level that games are starting to cost $3 million to $10 million to produce. Ken Williams. 2005.

[Kurosen]

If it's a console release, you're generally looking at $10 million minimum. If it's a "a triple A" kind of game, 20 million is the bare minimum and even that's edging to $25 mil.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Nique

Yeah, not trying to be difficult! Just want to see some numbers.

Well, as an example, when God of War went HD, those giants? The entire WORLD of the first game could have fit in its hand according to a quote I read from one of the creators. That's the polygon difference.

Simply put, graphics take up most of a game's budget these days. Not just the models, but the models, textures, normal and UV maps, motion capture, lip sync, etc.

Shamus Young talks about the costs of games here. He's better-equipped to talk about it than I personally am.

[Aerozord]

Ok I have recently started alot of studying in economics, business, and gaming industry in particular. I honestly haven't read all of the points made (its 11 pages after all) just wanted to toss in my two cents

Price of games is not arbitrary, its the equilibrium point of the market to maximize profits. Before you cry foul remember they are a business they exist to make money. Also only 5% of the games made turn a profit. These take tens of millions to make, so failing often kills a company. They need every cent they get. Sure some make hundreds of millions, but those are rare.

These companies only see a profit when you buy a new game. They dont care how you got the games, just that they see zero profit. Its about not supporting what you love then stealing from them. We had this arguement about Dragon Age's incentive code that you wouldn't get if you bought a used copy.

actually, same thing goes for renting to a lesser degree. Not saying dont do it, or that its morally wrong. just be aware you aren't supporting the developers by doing it. If that doesn't bother you, more power to ya

[Nique]

actually, same thing goes for renting to a lesser degree. Not saying dont do it, or that its morally wrong. just be aware you aren't supporting the developers by doing it. If that doesn't bother you, more power to ya

As I see it the problem is one I can sympathize with. But to actively blame me as a consumer for legally purchasing a product and or service becuase they get a raw deal from other companies when it comes to rentals or used game sells is self-defeating and highly insulting. Most gamers I know including myself buy new and used - Customers may be hard to deal with but you don't attack their perfectly legal spending habits.

[Aerozord]

personally, I feel you can do whatever the hell you want. Pirate, copy, rent, whatever. People that do that, while understanding the end result, dont bother me. Who am I to say they are bad. Just so long as they understand this doesn't support the ultimate creators and if they dont get enough the company will die.

I guess ideally, if you really like a game, you should buy a new one just to encourage more like it, even if you already rented it or whatever

[Nique]

I guess ideally, if you really like a game, you should buy a new one just to encourage more like it, even if you already rented it or whatever

I dont even... I mean, are you even being serious or what? Ideally I wouldn't have people who want my money telling me how to structure my life so that I can give them more money.

EDIT: Ok that came out sort of dickish I just don't get what it is you're trying to say.

[Aerozord]

I view things like rentals and piracy as a sample. As a rule if I like it I buy it legitimately. If I dont like it I pass it by and move on. It lets me try alot of things, but only hand over my cash to things I want to see more of.

Is this method a waste of money since I either already have the game for free, or paid for a rental? yup. Is it illegal since I still pirate crap and never buy? again yes but I'd never buy it anyways. Though it gets me the end result I want, I dont have to risk 60 bucks a pop on a game I might not like, but I still give that cash to the people that worked so hard to bring me this product. While those that make crap, get nothing for making crap. Plus I can take alot more risks since I dont invest until I know if I like it or not.

Ok, suppose I misspoke. This is ideal for me, probably not for you. But I want to give them money, they need my money to make more games, I dont view them getting my money as bad or them wanting it as negative. This came up in the DRM arguement. Maybe the method they use is bad, that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, but they do have every right to expect a profit for their work.

[Marc v4.0]

It is important to note, and it may have been already, that just because a the physical piece the game is encoded on sells for many times the actual value of the materials and production of game into said disc does not mean the company logs a proft every time they sell a game New. That money has to go to filling in the gap left by the money paid to every single person up and down the ladder who had a few moments contribution in the process of getting a final product.

Only after that hole is filled do they see actual profit. It's easily imaginable, with the costs of making the game itself, that the hole sometimes only just gets filled, or even at times does not. Whatever profits do get logged I would wager 9 times out of 10 either gets eaten up almost completely by work on the next game in the line, or on other games and/or marketing. Doesn't mean they aren't greedy, no, but doesn't mean they live like fat cats sucking the golden teet like a celebrity or big-shot oil tycoon.

We like to look at those names on the package and imagine a great, faceless corporation just trying to squeeze every penny out of you it can so they can fill their pools with orphen tears because the tears of regular children just don't cut it anymore, but it just isn't.

[Jagos]

Every game company runs a risk. Hell, every business has a risk to run. Whether it's a publisher or a developer, there's the belief in a safety net.

You develop exclusively on 1 console, you run the risk of losing audiences. You develop on the PC, you run the risk of losing your audience through various other "noises" or DRMing your way out of good cash (Ubisoft).

What would be a great idea is to allow more developers to develop on consoles at lesser prices. What would h%*&% PS3 difficult to program for. What would help is to have ways to implement newer business models on consoles rather than using law to try to curb people finding ways to emulate consoles on their PC.

And while they can expect a profit, that doesn't necessarily make it so when either A) the game is bad or B) it's 6+ years old and still overpriced.