Ex-cop manhunt in LA; tragedy ensues

[rpgdemon]

And since when is even ONE innocent person being murdered acceptable collateral damage, even if you think that murdering "bad guys" is okay.

You approve of drone strikes, presumably?

[Jagos]

Hold it people...

We DON'T know if he killed those two. The deaths happened on Monday and he put up his manifesto on Wednesday.

The ONLY death we know that can be attributable to him would be the police officer.

The rest of this is mainly character assassination to get the public against this guy which is a trick that the powerful use to cover up their own misdeeds.

I need actual evidence of the guns used to figure out if he actually did do the deed. AsI explained in my second post, the guy might just be a fall guy, used to justify more gun control laws to turn the public against citizens having guns.

Not only did that come from the fact that there are two manifestos running around, but the government has ordered 2.1 million rounds of ammunition for whatever reason you see fit to say explains all of it.

Also, just as an alternative?

Move out of LA, link up with some other people, form an underground radio show, a TV network, wrote a book on corruption, go back to school for a law degree....

Shit, reading the manifesto, the guy had the intelligence to be a DA if he wanted to. I'm willing to think that if he had learned of other whistleblowers, he might have opted for the violence route, but the guy had options.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Sifright

Did you even read any of my previous posts? Seriously.

Yes. Your previous posts are nothing more than an angry, incoherent series of rants, often lacking an iota of actual analysis and instead riding solely the surfboard of your impressive degree of rage.

As an aside, I do find it ironic, or at least highly coincidental, that some of the very people who've supported institutional oppression and the suppression of criticism of racist / sexist / homophobic messages in previous NPF discussions are some of the most vocal in favor of rampant violence in response to institutional oppression here.

So let me get this strai tght: It's justifiable for Dorner to go on a rampage and kill people in a desperate attempt to prove LAPD corruption, and we'll accept causalities as necessary in that context; but it's unjustifiable for an NPFer to bring up in the context of a non-violent verbal conversation that your favorite videogame is kind of offensive on NPF without losing your cool over how kneejerk sensitive we all are.

...Can we just think that through, for a second? I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but I can't.

[Azisien]

Originally Posted by rpgdemon

And since when is even ONE innocent person being murdered acceptable collateral damage, even if you think that murdering "bad guys" is okay.

You approve of drone strikes, presumably?

No I approve of (and am one of the only ones aware of) sarcasm.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Yes. Your previous posts are nothing more than an angry, incoherent series of rants, often lacking an iota of actual analysis and instead riding solely the surfboard of your impressive degree of rage.

As an aside, I do find it ironic, or at least highly coincidental, that some of the very people who've supported institutional oppression and the suppression of criticism of racist / sexist / homophobic messages in previous NPF discussions are some of the most vocal in favor of rampant violence in response to institutional oppression here.

So let me get this strai tght: It's justifiable for Dorner to go on a rampage and kill people in a desperate attempt to prove LAPD corruption, and we'll accept causalities as necessary in that context; but it's unjustifiable for an NPFer to bring up in the context of a non-violent verbal conversation that your favorite videogame is kind of offensive on NPF without losing your cool over how kneejerk sensitive we all are.

...Can we just think that through, for a second? I'm trying to wrap my head around this, but I can't.

You must be confused and think i'm Bells.

See i've never been on the side of the conversation you are accusing me of.

Also if you truly believe what you've said in that rant. All I got to say is "lol"

[CABAL49]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Oh my God everyone here is a sociopath.
Do you feel even the slightest bit of remorse for the presumed innocent people you're willing to let die in order to "change a system" that WILL NOT even change as a result of this man's actions?!?

No one has suggested this. I have even made the point that it will probably make the whole situation worse than it was. That is beside the point of mine, which is to have an honest discussion about what to do with this. Alternatives suggested to his actions have been useless at best.

[QUOTE}You're assuming this methodology would be successful when it clearly isn't. Deliberately targeting and killing innocent people is never a great idea to inspire others to come to your defense. It's only a convenient way to enable the institution you're combating to whitewash everything you've actually done and instead concentrate on the fact that you're killing innocent people.[/QUOTE]

No he hasn't. At no point neither Sif nor myself have championed his cause. No one has suggested that he has the moral highground.

EDIT: Buddy, there's a huge difference between whistleblowing within the LAPD, and whistleblowing to an outside, leftist source who'd be very eager to publicize the LAPD's dirty laundry.

The dirty laundry of the LAPD is fairly well known. I am actually surprised you went this long without knowing it. But look at what has happened to named supporters of Wikileaks. Julian Assanage is essentially under House arrest and Bradly Manning is being tortured in prison, if his lawyer is to be believed. And what have we done about the what they have exposed anyways? The military is still shooting civilians and no one cares. This is not a viable alternative.

So what do you suggest?

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Jagos

We DON'T know if he killed those two. The deaths happened on Monday and he put up his manifesto on Wednesday.

Think this through rationally. The LAPD wants to frame Dorner. So they're going to kill a police officer's daughter and her fiance? Like, if you're the LAPD. Wouldn't you target just about anyone else before targeting the daughter of the loyal, presumably corrupt LAPD officer who's helped you rid of Dorner? And why kill the girl just to silence a whistleblower who saw another officer KICK A CRIMINAL SUSPECT?!?

...Man, this conspiracy theory's all over the goddamn map.

[Jagos]

Solid, have you ever been discriminated against?

Have you ever seen the worst the system has to offer to the weakest citizen?

Have you ever wanted to fight back against that imbalance in any way?

That's the empathy to understand where the guy is coming from.

If he killed the people, he brought condemnation on his cause which is essentially a power struggle with the state.

But then, the LAPD gave him validation by shooting at random cars and injuring innocents.

The question right now is who do you believe? Why? It's not "let's support the cop-killer because he's defending the weak like a Rambo or Punisher in a crazy display of vigilante justice". It's a lot more shades of grey in trying to find out the right course of action here.

-e- And yes, that's why it's a conspiracy theory so as not to mislead anyone about if it's factual or not. I don't know if he killed the girl, I'm just reading the reports. If something comes out to contradict that, then I would update that.

[Sifright]

Let's be clear here Snake.

I'll spell it out for you.

I was massively incredulous that you were IGNORANT of what the LAPD has done.

A taskforce that is INFAMOUS across the world as one of the most corrupt in the western world.

I was shocked that you a citizen of your country could be ignorant of things that people in europe could tell you about.

That you deem none of my posts to have any substantive worth is entirely due to your warped perceptions of me and personally you can get fucked.

That you keep ascribing things i've not stated to me so you can knock them down doesn't surprise me.

That you are so in love with your own ego that you can't look things up your self on google when a cursory examination will find rafts of evidence of their misdeeds also doesn't surprise me because you are a narcissistic twat.

I don't agree with this guy murdering Innocents if that is what he has done.

But I can understand what has caused him to break.

There does that explain my position amply for you?

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Jagos

Solid, have you ever been discriminated against?

Have you ever seen the worst the system has to offer to the weakest citizen?

Have you ever wanted to fight back against that imbalance in any way?

That's the empathy to understand where the guy is coming from.

If he killed the people, he brought condemnation on his cause which is essentially a power struggle with the state.

But then, the LAPD gave him validation by shooting at random cars and injuring innocents.

The question right now is who do you believe? Why? It's not "let's support the cop-killer because he's defending the weak like a Rambo or Punisher in a crazy display of vigilante justice". It's a lot more shades of grey in trying to find out the right course of action here.

Jagos, +1 internets.