Pokemon Umbral Discussion 27: Prepare For Trouble...

[Dracorion]

And with Spitz's Super Fang, not to mention Swampert and Magnezone Mimicking it, you're telling me we would've lost? We could've gotten them all to half health in two turns. And then? Regina be fucked.

Of course they hit us hard. But how many RPs do you think those Signature Techniques cost them? They do function on RPs, apparently.

[Geminex]

Look, I'm just making an estimate. And I estimate that we would have, eventually, lost. I don't know, I just think so.

Altarisect's bugs which she laced anything that attacked her with would probably have come into play. Plus Lopunnish's Zeus Rod (which, I'm sure, would have hurt us somehow).
Weakening them, instead of killing, has the downside of them actually being able to heal themselves. Sure, we could've gotten them all down to half-health. But we, I think, wouldn't have had the firepower to finish them off, particularly since it would've been possible for just one or two to heal themselves back to full. Then we'd just have a scenario whereby we've managed to kill all but one or two of them, but a round later they all revive again. And with the amount of items they probably had, they could have kept that up for quite a while.

And I don't think they need signature techniques. They can just attack normally, that does pretty huge damage as well.

[Dracorion]

Yeah, but at least with normal attacks they wouldn't have been able to do what they did this turn. Y'know, wipe out almost all of our combatants.

I don't know if any of them had the capacity to heal themselves. Gardenoir, Frossqueen and Altarisect I think may have had moves to heal themselves with, but their primary source of healing would've been Regina, who we could just keep asleep.

If Gardenoir, Altarisect and Frossqueen couldn't heal themselves, then we just weakened all of them and took out Regina's pokemon and weakened Regina a bit. If they gain RPs from auto-reviving, we'd have to keep Pokegeddon alive the whole time we're taking out Regina's pokemon and take some heavy casualties. I'm talking most of our combatants down and trainers maybe having one or two or three pokemon left. Then we'd go for the kill, loosing Signature Techniques and Synchronization Techniques and Signature Sequences until they all die.

If Gardenoir, Altarisect and Frossqueen could heal themselves, follow the above plan except ignoring those three.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

...

And Menarker, see, my main problem with Mollesk is that, while it has huge defense, how does that help it? I mean, sure, it can take a lot of hits, but there's tons of other targets around. Why would enemies attack it specifically? And, I mean, you put almost everything into survivability. It has good attack, but it doesn't really have the attacks to make use of that. So what you really have is a hard-to-kill pokemon that really can't do much killing itself.

1: Follow Me can be used to save someone who may be more important or cruical at the time while having the stamina to live a good deal of the time. Or at least act as a serious buffer for the person it is protecting.

2: Its attack is "passable" for dealing with mooks. If it REALLY needs to do a beatdown on a boss, it has the gimicky option of Buffing/Power Trick and Attacking, especially if said attack is a Testament Drive.

3: Being able to take multiple hits means that Renny gains more rage that way. With Follow Me, if Mollesk blocks for someone who is being ganged up on (Requires guessing which target is likely to be hit), Renny gains rage pretty fast.

4: Rock Slide hits two foes, thus Renny gains more rage just a bit faster, thus fueling his support skills.

Thus, it serves as an additional rage building tool and defensive wall at the same time while either serving as a mook damager, team support, or a Boss Nuke. (999 Attack with Testament Drive?)

Admitably though, Recover is less of a useful move than I would have liked. At least I could assumed that Mollesk could heal in between battles with it, but with the recent revelations that Medics have infinite healing items, that is no longer a crucial point.

If/when I make a custom move for Mollesk, I'm thinking something like a high power AOE bug type move that drains a huge portion of the damage back as health. That's entirely at the moment thinking though and haven't thought of anything else huge yet.

Anyhow, part of the problem with the Pokegeddon, was that their stats had gotten boosted by Supreme Restore. Their power was going to be practically all around 2.5 times tougher. They left the fight when they had the "supreme" upper hand.
If we had Mirror as our engineer, she could probably nuke them due to the dark evolith having Punishment which gets stronger when foes get a buff. A Supreme Restore gives 15 stages worth of buffs, 3 for each primary buff stat, Attack, Defense, Speed, Special Attack and Defense. Punishment would have had a power of 360 in that case! If a dark pokemon (preferably one with high attack stat) used it, adding STAB would make it a devasting force, and that's before anything else like weakness or Helping Hand.

Anyhow, do we have a plan now, since AB said that Max Revives would count as normal revives when used with Prosperous Gifts? Are we going to revive the lost pokemons or are we focusing on me using Prosperous Gifts on the Full Restores to heal all the pokebrids and humans?



AB: Shall I assume that Mollesk high enough level that it would max its defense and special defense (999) this turn due to a 4 stage boost? Since Mollesk is tripling his defense and special defense and its base stat at level 50 for those two stats is 230 (according to Serebi's stats of Shuckle which Mollesk's defense is a copy of and that's assuming a neutral nature.) It only needs 333 in those stats to max it out, and a Shuckle with neutral nature can reach 559 at level 100.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

1: Follow Me can be used to save someone who may be more important or cruical at the time while having the stamina to live a good deal of the time. Or at least act as a serious buffer for the person it is protecting.

Entirely circumstantial. Like you said, you have to guess it.

Originally Posted by Menarker

2: Its attack is "passable" for dealing with mooks. If it REALLY needs to do a beatdown on a boss, it has the gimicky option of Buffing/Power Trick and Attacking, especially if said attack is a Testament Drive.

Already established it takes forever. And leaves the whole team hanging to get fucked while we're waiting for you to make your super-tank and hope to Christ it doesn't get ganged up on in the meantime.

Originally Posted by Menarker

3: Being able to take multiple hits means that Renny gains more rage that way. With Follow Me, if Mollesk blocks for someone who is being ganged up on (Requires guessing which target is likely to be hit), Renny gains rage pretty fast.

4: Rock Slide hits two foes, thus Renny gains more rage just a bit faster, thus fueling his support skills.

Thus, it serves as an additional rage building tool and defensive wall at the same time while either serving as a mook damager, team support, or a Boss Nuke. (999 Attack with Testament Drive?)

You and your Rage.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Admitably though, Recover is less of a useful move than I would have liked. At least I could assumed that Mollesk could heal in between battles with it, but with the recent revelations that Medics have infinite healing items, that is no longer a crucial point.

No comment on Double Team? For shame. I mean, you had better not be thinking of spending three turns for Cosmic Power/Power Trick and then another two for Double Team.

Originally Posted by Menarker

If/when I make a custom move for Mollesk, I'm thinking something like a high power AOE bug type move that drains a huge portion of the damage back as health. That's entirely at the moment thinking though and haven't thought of anything else huge yet.

I'd rather you didn't. For one, I thought Renny was supposed to love all his pokemon equally, yet it seems like Mollesk gets all the cool stuff.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Anyhow, part of the problem with the Pokegeddon, was that their stats had gotten boosted by Supreme Restore. Their power was going to be practically all around 2.5 times tougher. They left the fight when they had the "supreme" upper hand.
If we had Mirror as our engineer, she could probably nuke them due to the dark evolith having Punishment which gets stronger when foes get a buff. A Supreme Restore gives 15 stages worth of buffs, 3 for each primary buff stat, Attack, Defense, Speed, Special Attack and Defense. Punishment would have had a power of 360 in that case! If a dark pokemon (preferably one with high attack stat) used it, adding STAB would make it a devasting force, and that's before anything else like weakness or Helping Hand.

Meh, we could've taken 'em anyway.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Anyhow, do we have a plan now, since AB said that Max Revives would count as normal revives when used with Prosperous Gifts? Are we going to revive the lost pokemons or are we focusing on me using Prosperous Gifts on the Full Restores to heal all the pokebrids and humans?

Do both. I dunno the items Renny's carrying, but have Rachel use Full Restores on Impact and Matthias, and Renny can use a Full Restore on Mollesk and spread a Max Revive for the whole team.

Or just let Mollesk die. I'm okay with that too.

And don't think you can keep ignoring my accusations that you're only making Renny a Pokebrid for an excuse to get into Lola's pants.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

No comment on Double Team? For shame. I mean, you had better not be thinking of spending three turns for Cosmic Power/Power Trick and then another two for Double Team.

I'd rather you didn't. For one, I thought Renny was supposed to love all his pokemon equally, yet it seems like Mollesk gets all the cool stuff.

Do both. I dunno the items Renny's carrying, but have Rachel use Full Restores on Impact and Matthias, and Renny can use a Full Restore on Mollesk and spread a Max Revive for the whole team.

And don't think you can keep ignoring my accusations that you're only making Renny a Pokebrid for an excuse to get into Lola's pants.

Oh? I thought I had written about Double Team. Must have accidently edited it out before submitting. Anyhow, Double Team can be very useful, but it's mainly having to combine it with Cosmic Power that slows it down a lot. Although later on, it might show more use since Mollesk will be strong enough to max out its defense in one turn and have time to spread Double Team during those "3 turn bonus thing" or so. The Simple Ability doubles it potency as well, so it gets evasive faster than most pokemons. (40% of dodging attacks with 1 use)

As for Mollesk's custom move, I was merely brainstorming, as I'm still thinking of stuff for the other pokemons for when I do hit Pokemon Breeder. And Umbreon is first on the list for the boosts I'm thinking of dishing out. I was just thinking how I would make Mollesk more effective to round out any flaws. That way is allowing him to recover health as he attacks, since his defense is very high so he'll take very little damage total after taking healing in consideration. But certainly not set on it.

I would like to hear from Bard and Dante regarding if they intend to use any of their items. Because, I don't want to use an item by itself unless the situation is super desperate.
Would personally prefer to spread Full Restore to everyone hurt and save the revives for when Impact/Matthias/Harriette and other Slayers or certain crucial pokemons are knocked out.

And your pokebrid accusation is incorrect. Renny is quite the gentleman, and seducing someone through the weakened willpower of the pokebrid lust alone is really quite questionable in his mind. Although he himself might feel weak to resist if Lola starts initating such attention his way, although he is the sort to take responsibility if things gets heavy.

[Dracorion]

You can't round out all the flaws. Or rather, you shouldn't. Look at every single pokemon that exists, see that they have flaws and explain to me why Mollesk should be any different.

I get that you like to powergame, but you gotta set up your own restrictions. Mollesk is already a tank, so I'm against it getting any moves that restore HP. Especially not AOE HP-draining moves. Or Evasion boosting, for that matter. Since Evasion implies speed and agility and Mollesk is supposed to be the slow kid.

And you know what you didn't rule out about my accusation? That Renny himself as a Pokebrid would go into heat. And God help Lola in that situation.

[Menarker]

AB said already that those in heat aren't helpless and mindless bangers. They just have that urge and desire more consciously present in their mind (along with the general bodily arousal.)

Anyhow, Mollesk does has a few flaws already. Practically can't crit with any move and can't flinch with Rock Slide due to crap speed. It's attack is passably average and the way it boosts its power is gimicky and defensively risky. It is vulnerable to status conditions and instant kill moves if they hit and stuff that isn't direct damage in general. I'm just selected the first idea that came to my head to work on a particular flaw (balancing survival and offence without spending more turns). Not set in stone, so no worries.

[Dracorion]

Sure. But A) Renny would be entirely unaccustomed the first time around, and B) I'm not sure what lengths you'd go to to get Renny into Lola's pants.

So, if Mollesk can't crit, it's attack could be better, and can't flinch, what the hell is it good for? The entire fucking POINT of a tank is to give it a giant goddamn cannon.

Rage points, you say? There'll come a time when Renny's Signature Technique and Signature Sequence just aren't going to be necessary. So by the time you do use either of them you could've gathered up the RPs without Mollesk anyway.

Also no status condition is going to matter if you give it that AOE drain (crap Attack, so confusion wouldn't be threatening, can tank through Poison, Freeze and Burn, no point in Sleep since it'll wake up after being attacked anyway, so the only statuses worth it would be, what, paralysis and flinch?), and no one uses insta-kill anyway. Even if they did, your defenses are as good as any of the rest of us. And they should remain that way.

[DanteFalcon]

Matt will use his Full Restore if one doesn't come his way. Which doesn't answer your question I know but that's the only answer I can give.

In other news. As of 6/8/2010 I'm 21. 1 year closer to dying.