Pokemon Umbral Discussion 33 again: Hijacked!

[Dracorion]

Clearly the lady with the wardrobe malfunction was hoping to get a discount.

[Astral Harmony]

Sure, Divided Defog will work.

If I posted that in my database, it must be true, so yes, you can do that.

But unfortunately, you will be spending this turn with the disadvantage of not knowing which enemy is which.

So, this is what the enemy formation currently looks like:

[???? A] [???? B] [???? C] [???? D] [???? E] [???? F] [???? G] [???? H] [???? I] [???? J]

You're just going to have to work for that for this turn, and so long as you use three Fog of War-blowy-away moves, this'll be the only turn you need concern yourself with obscured enemies...at least in the main formation.

And no Charlotte, you can't switch your Love Tech with Shannon for a regular attack. That strange union might actually go somewhere...most likely on the beach.

Charlotte: "Hey, Shannon. Could you rub suntan lotion on my body?"
Shannon: "Sure, no problem. Oh, wow, your skin is so smooth."
Charlotte: "Ah...yeah, thanks."
Shannon: *undoes Charlotte's bikini top*
Charlotte: "Hey, what're you doing?"
Shannon: "Oh c'mon, Charlotte. You obviously sunbathe naked or else you would have tan lines."
Charlotte: "Well, yeah, but-oh! Don't rub there!"
Shannon: "Hey, we're both girls, right? Is it really so strange?"
Charlotte: "Just...just be gentle, okay? They're really sensitive. And don't you think you've done it enough?"
Shannon: "Just making sure you're sufficiently lotioned up. Aw, damn it."
Charlotte: "What's wrong?"
Shannon: "I need to undo your bikini bottom but I have lotion all over my hands."
Charlotte: "Is that really a problem? Well, just use your mouth to peel them off."

And now if you'll excuse me, I need to stuff some toilet paper in my nose and go to work.

[Geminex]

And, this goes back to what I said above, everyone's equally good at giving orders, everyone's equally good at putting aside prejudice and everyone's equally disciplined in battle.

No. No they're not. Why would you think that? Impact's orders are better (Seriously. Don't even question this. Sure, Pierce gets to give orders too, but if you use the fact that I let you attribute my plans to Pierce against me, then goddammit, man) he's more disciplined in general (I mean, you never heard him go on a rant about dead civillians, or have a slanging match with captured enemy combatants), and, like I said before, he's ruthless. And since it's almost guaranteed that that'll become necessary, bam. 'nother point for Impact.
Look, Renny's nicer, and better with people.
Pierce is way more heroic, and probably most likely to lead the team to a righteous self-sacrifice that'll acomplish all their goals in one fell swoop.
But Impact can do the whole 'accomplish all goals in one fell swoop' thing without any need for self-sacrifice. Unlike Renny, he wouldn't make many friends doing so, and his address to the nation upon victory would be less 'We defeated the forces of evil using teamwork and the power of love!' and more 'I led PATCA to victory. However, while the external threats to our home country have now been eliminated with minimal loss of PATCA life, the economy and social fabric is teeming with inefficiencies, with mistakes and impurities. There must be a restructuring of our country. A cleansing, of sorts. I have led PATCA to victory. And Hommnyr... Hommynr will be led to a new, brighter future. Whether it likes it, or not." Or at least that's Impact as he is now, it's already been established that he'll change. Pierce, hero, Renny, nice guy, Impact, asshole, who, despite this fact, is best at the job.
Seriously, I genuinely believe that he's the most competent leader. He makes less mistakes than Pierce or Renny, he plans ahead more than either, he has the whole ruthlessness thing going for him, he can manipulate people, even if they don't really like him. There's tons of stuff. Sure, he's shifty and sorta creepy but seriously, all the PCs have to go on is his mode of speech, and a few vague comments, so at the moment, until you get more to go on IC, that's relatively minor.
I'll try to keep proving his competence, as well. I'll convince you eventually, I'm sure. And hell, the leadership thing isn't utterly non-negotiable. Depending on what happens next in my convo with AB, I might have a grand new deal in store!

I mean, I don't doubt that you're going to make Impact nicer. But that much? Yeah, I ain't buyin' it.

Impact's gonna have some sort of epiphany (again), I'm certain of that. I'm not sure what it will be, or when it will happen, but it'll change him. He'll start being nicer once Renny makes him realize that that's the way to control people, but the epiphany will be apart from that, and it'll actually effect him deeply.
What I'm thinking right now, is that he realizes that he's been thinking too large-scale, that no individual is irrelevant, even in the large scheme of things.
That won't necessarily make him that much nicer. But it'll make him more 3-dimensional, and probably more capable as well. So that he actually will be 'impressive' in more ways than combat, manipulation, and strategy.

Plus, I'll give him a mission. Something he can use all this CONTROL in aid of. Not entirely certain what this'll be yet, either, but again. I've got ideas.

And the friend request thing was not a suck-up. Firstly, I wouldn't stoop that low, and secondly, it hardly would have affected you, even if it was. Or are you saying I can get you to make concessions during negotiations by going 'I wuv woo!"?

And finally, every PATCA member needs a screen-name. Different from the code-name. Totally different. Made up of two words which form an abstract description of said character. Impact's would be... Lessee... 'hellsTactician'? Maybe.
hT: enemy trainer using fire types
hT: supported by snipers
hT: DEPLOY water types and FLANK the enemy's left wing
hT: once enemy formation is flanked four TARGET snipers; rest TARGET fire types
hT: WAIT for it...
ht: WAIT for it...
hT: now >8/
hT: FIRE AT WILL
...
Why yes, I'm trying to make up for lack of HS with other means, thanks for asking!

And Bard, I know that I dropped this a while ago, but goddammit, just have Shannon get together with Charlotte.

[Bard The 5th LW]

CharlottexShannon is dumb. Charlotte's love technique would be a love technique, but it would consist of CharlottexCharlotte.

And we could totally talk over pesterchum. The Client is out, you just got to go to the MSPA forums. I already have it.I'd have to put some thought into a user namer for Charlotte...

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

No. No they're not. Why would you think that? Impact's orders are better (Seriously. Don't even question this. Sure, Pierce gets to give orders too, but if you use the fact that I let you attribute my plans to Pierce against me, then goddammit, man) he's more disciplined in general (I mean, you never heard him go on a rant about dead civillians, or have a slanging match with captured enemy combatants), and, like I said before, he's ruthless. And since it's almost guaranteed that that'll become necessary, bam. 'nother point for Impact.

Some people might consider that ruthlessness isn't actually a virtue.

It's kinda like ambition. Sometimes it's good, but most of the time it goes very very wrong.

Now, Pierce caring about dead civilians? Definitely a virtue.

Also, he can afford to taunt captured enemies because the burden of leadership ain't on his shoulders. He's still technically supporting Impact, after all.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Look, Renny's nicer, and better with people.
Pierce is way more heroic, and probably most likely to lead the team to a righteous self-sacrifice that'll acomplish all their goals in one fell swoop.
But Impact can do the whole 'accomplish all goals in one fell swoop' thing without any need for self-sacrifice. Unlike Renny, he wouldn't make many friends doing so, and his address to the nation upon victory would be less 'We defeated the forces of evil using teamwork and the power of love!' and more 'I led PATCA to victory. However, while the external threats to our home country have now been eliminated with minimal loss of PATCA life, the economy and social fabric is teeming with inefficiencies, with mistakes and impurities. There must be a restructuring of our country. A cleansing, of sorts. I have led PATCA to victory. And Hommnyr... Hommynr will be led to a new, brighter future. Whether it likes it, or not." Or at least that's Impact as he is now, it's already been established that he'll change. Pierce, hero, Renny, nice guy, Impact, asshole, who, despite this fact, is best at the job.

Hey, the only person Pierce would sacrifice is himself. And why would you complain about that?

Also, seriously, Impact's speech there? It couldn't be MORE evil if you had Palpatine write it.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Seriously, I genuinely believe that he's the most competent leader. He makes less mistakes than Pierce or Renny, he plans ahead more than either, he has the whole ruthlessness thing going for him, he can manipulate people, even if they don't really like him. There's tons of stuff. Sure, he's shifty and sorta creepy but seriously, all the PCs have to go on is his mode of speech, and a few vague comments, so at the moment, until you get more to go on IC, that's relatively minor.

Again, manipulating people might not be a virtue.

Y'see, a leader is supposed to be someone everyone can trust. And trust works even better than manipulating people when it comes to getting them to do what you want.

Renny can be trusted. Pierce (soon, anyway) can be trusted.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'll try to keep proving his competence, as well. I'll convince you eventually, I'm sure. And hell, the leadership thing isn't utterly non-negotiable. Depending on what happens next in my convo with AB, I might have a grand new deal in store!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Impact's gonna have some sort of epiphany (again), I'm certain of that. I'm not sure what it will be, or when it will happen, but it'll change him. He'll start being nicer once Renny makes him realize that that's the way to control people, but the epiphany will be apart from that, and it'll actually effect him deeply.
What I'm thinking right now, is that he realizes that he's been thinking too large-scale, that no individual is irrelevant, even in the large scheme of things.
That won't necessarily make him that much nicer. But it'll make him more 3-dimensional, and probably more capable as well. So that he actually will be 'impressive' in more ways than combat, manipulation, and strategy.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And the friend request thing was not a suck-up. Firstly, I wouldn't stoop that low, and secondly, it hardly would have affected you, even if it was. Or are you saying I can get you to make concessions during negotiations by going 'I wuv woo!"?

Try it, I dare ya.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And finally, every PATCA member needs a screen-name. Different from the code-name. Totally different. Made up of two words which form an abstract description of said character. Impact's would be... Lessee... 'hellsTactician'? Maybe.

Pierce's would be "Impact" just to spite you.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

[I]
Look, Renny's nicer, and better with people.
Pierce is way more heroic, and probably most likely to lead the team to a righteous self-sacrifice that'll acomplish all their goals in one fell swoop.
But Impact can do the whole 'accomplish all goals in one fell swoop' thing without any need for self-sacrifice. Unlike Renny, he wouldn't make many friends doing so, and his address to the nation upon victory would be less 'We defeated the forces of evil using teamwork and the power of love!' and more 'I led PATCA to victory. However, while the external threats to our home country have now been eliminated with minimal loss of PATCA life, the economy and social fabric is teeming with inefficiencies, with mistakes and impurities. There must be a restructuring of our country. A cleansing, of sorts. I have led PATCA to victory. And Hommnyr... Hommynr will be led to a new, brighter future. Whether it likes it, or not." Or at least that's Impact as he is now, it's already been established that he'll change. Pierce, hero, Renny, nice guy, Impact, asshole, who, despite this fact, is best at the job.

Seriously, I genuinely believe that he's the most competent leader. He makes less mistakes than Pierce or Renny, he plans ahead more than either, he has the whole ruthlessness thing going for him, he can manipulate people, even if they don't really like him. There's tons of stuff. Sure, he's shifty and sorta creepy but seriously, all the PCs have to go on is his mode of speech, and a few vague comments, so at the moment, until you get more to go on IC, that's relatively minor.
I'll try to keep proving his competence, as well. I'll convince you eventually, I'm sure. And hell, the leadership thing isn't utterly non-negotiable. Depending on what happens next in my convo with AB, I might have a grand new deal in store!

You state all this as if it was fact. I say bullshit. Of course, if you mean that Impact BELIEVES in these things, that is perfectly understandable and appropriate for the manner which you have been roleplaying him.

First, you've completely Flanderized Renny's idealism and respect for people to the point that you make it look like Renny isn't capable of thinking "realistically" or thinking like an adult. You make it sound like he got a mentality of a elementary school student.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...4&postcount=49

Referring you to this post, which Impact was present at the location, Renny knows about people being selfish, not wanting to negotiate. That people even those like children and those who have been abused or victims of their circumstances have to be dealt with. (His group was the one that had to deal with Moera). Yes, he rather live under the belief and lifestyle of friendship and love, and he thinks teamwork is a valuable banner to rally under (Seriously, it's one of the things that screams "patriotism"), but he's not as childish as you make it seem like. Seriously, he's the age of almost graduating from High School. Plus traveling the world grants a certain level of life experience and maturity that being stuck and coddled in school doesn't grant.

Also, I don't know where the heck you get your claim of Impact making less mistakes than Pierce or Renny. Renny's group had never had any "mistakes", since both times, Renny fought pokemons with varying types, never knowing what the next type would be. Otherwise, elements had typically been taken advantage of, abilities used effectively and not wasted or hoarded to the point of uselessness. Compared to Impact who mainly fought Ruin types which all have the same weaknesses and resistances (no big suprises), Renny frankly could be seen as the better leader because he has to deal with more suprises and no set pattern of victory. Basically, it's like you're bragging about being the better leader when you're cruising Easy Mode and I'm playing Hard Mode.
(I didn't mention about Pierce's mistakes or lack there/of because both missions, he was stuck with you. =P He honestly hasn't had much of a chance of being a leader in his own right.)

As for ruthlessness and such, that's all opinion, like ambition. Just like Drac said. Heck, read the webcomic Erfworld. Has that sort of thing in detail (sounds like it would be up your alley too.) To Impact who normally fights alone (or at least without pokemons), ambition and ruthlessness has more value. To someone like Renny who has pokemon allies and uses techniques to further encourage the allies he does make, friendship and comradeship has more uses. You talk about Impact planning ahead, I'd say that Renny has the opposite trait of being "adaptable" which he had to learn from fighting pokemon/pokebrids, not knowing what element foe comes out of the next pokeballs.


Mind you, I said that the "incorrect things" you claim is appropriate for Impact to think of Renny roleplaying wise due to...

A: Neither Pierce or Impact have EVER been in the same group as Renny when he was commanding. To them, Renny's "leadership" is an informed trait that neither of them have seem first hand outside of Renny commanding his own pokemons or giving bits of advice. The NPCs may praise Renny's talent and leadership skills, and Charlotte and Matthias have seen it first hand, but neither Pierce or Impact have seen Renny in a commanding role. (Which makes it easy to understand why those two are the most vocal speaking out agianst him) *Would be neat if we had a mission where Renny DID lead while Pierce and Impact were in the group. *

B: Renny's openly affectionate nature in the beginning giving a rather particular first impression which was not well recieved by Impact or Pierce.
Mind you, your attempt to change how people view Impact and his brand of leadership is welcome (by me at least).

C: Impact leftover mentality of ruthlessness and maturity above other traits from since the very beginning of the RP. (While Impact has matured over the time period, I don't think you can deny that a good portion of what he was before and what he believed in is still a significant influence to how he acts now.)

Anyhow, I welcome your attempts to change how Impact's leadership/competence is viewed by the team, although don't think that the changes come instantly or that there won't be a few lingering doubts.

Also, you're welcome to believe that Impact is a "great" leader (Impact the character himself is welcome to believe that's the case) but keep in mind that many ruthless leaders have tried and failed, just like many good leaders have failed too. Your character's leadership traits are not superior or weaker to Renny's or Pierce. Just different. Different traits work better or worse in different situations.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Impact reminds me a little bit of Invader Zim during the episode 'Hobo 13'.

I suggest you all watch it if you haven't.

[Menarker]

Do any of you guys got any particular plans for what you guys will do, since we don't have a basis to form an educated plan?

I was thinking that this might be a good time to use Serene's Blessing. Renny has enough rage to start it up, he can use both his pokemons to use Defog (and they will be protected). Someone else can summon a pokemon with Defog or use a Flying type attack (for a total of 3 defogs) while the rest can pay rage to buy a turn of protection as we choose 2 or 3 enemy slots to focus fire at blindly.

[Dracorion]

Eeehhh...

The only characters with viable Flying-type attacks other than Renny are, what, Pierce and Matthias?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Hammond ain't down yet, but he will probably be out of commision unless someone has some eyedrops with them.