We will now discuss Naruto is a spoilery manner.

[Fusionman]

Originally Posted by BardTheFifthLightWarrior

When you say 'worked his ass off' you mean 'genetically inherited or asked a demon for power' right?

Because seriously, the hard work idea was put on the shelf during the first fight with Neji.

So it was put on the shelf during the best fight in Naruto history?

[Lithp]

Compared to Orochimaru vs. the Third Hokage, all of the fights in the Sasuke Retrieval Arc, & the Pain battles, I barely notice Naruto vs. Neji.

So what you're saying is it's turning into Bleach.

Point to me where Ichigo has been called a destined hero even once.

Just pointing out that when she was saved, she was kidnapped when she was like 6 years old by a bunch of Jounin ninjas who probably organized the kidnapping so as to do it in a way that wouldn't allow Kushina to fight back in any way whatsoever (especially considering she was a jinchuriki and if they fucked up they would be screwed).

I'm going to assume that they had all kinds of provisions in place that were conveniently not shown, just because:

Minato is in her age group, as well as not a Jinchuuriki, & therefore the whole damn point is invalid.

And when she's mothering Naruto and being useless, it's because she just had a freaken kid and had the nine-tails fox ripped out of her, which she survived. (something that no other character has been able to do).

It's called giving us glimpses onto other parts of her life. As I already said, being a flashback character doesn't excuse her.

Actually, that fact alone just shows how strong Kushina really is. She survived having the Nine-tails ripped from her body, and still had enough strength to help seal half of the nine-tails chakra into Naruto.

That only proves the fact that she's 1 giant Deus Ex Machina. Hell, it's not even her, it's her "special chakras."

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Lithp

Point to me where Ichigo has been called a destined hero even once.

Originally Posted by Lithp

Stuff

Just so you are aware, when I wrote that I was pretty tired so most of it is probably rambling, and I feel it would be unfair to continue the train of thought unless I am in the same state of mind that I was in when I wrote it .

[Lithp]

Okie dokie. But "I planned all of this shit" is not the same as destiny. Naruto is literally foretold by a prophecy to be some kind of great hero.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Lithp

Okie dokie. But "I planned all of this shit" is not the same as destiny. Naruto is literally foretold by a prophecy to be some kind of great hero.

Destiny is just replacing
"I planned this shit"
with
"God/precursors/ancient aliens/the spirits/I, but I'm also god so "eh" planned this shit"

[Lithp]

Destiny is when something is foretold by fate, it is not the same thing as being manipulated by someone else.

The fact is that Naruto pulled the destiny card. Bleach has yet to do so.

[Premmy]

Destiny

Destiny may be envisaged as fore-ordained by the Divine

=

Originally Posted by Premalemading-dong

"God/precursors/ancient aliens/the spirits/I, but I'm also god so "eh" planned this shit"

[krogothwolf]

Yeah, Destiny is just Naruto going the easy way out instead of trying to explain everything like Bleach tried to do with how it was all "planned"

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Lithp

That only proves the fact that she's 1 giant Deus Ex Machina. Hell, it's not even her, it's her "special chakras."

???
So If she appeared at the start of the story, it wouldn't be a Deus Ex Machina because then we would have known about her all along?

Oh wait, nearly 60% of the fan base knew Minato /4th Hokage was Naruto's Dad during the training ark leading up to "Sasuke Retrieval Arc". 100+ chapters BEFORE it was revealed. So his mom being as powerful as she was made perfect sense. Hell if she couldn't survive that and was piss poor weak then she'd be one big let down that makes Naruto being strong as all holy hell complete bull shit (more so then normal).

[Lithp]

Yeah, Destiny is just Naruto going the easy way out instead of trying to explain everything like Bleach tried to do with how it was all "planned"

I sense sarcasm. Trouble is, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying, "Bleach's plot device is better," I'm saying, "They aren't the same thing." As I recall, there was nothing in Aizen's big fancy speech that stated that Ichigo's actions were controlled by the Hougyokou.

So, by the quick litmus test of "Naruto has a prophecy & Bleach doesn't," we can conclude that Bleach doesn't address destiny, but Naruto does. Now, if the issue is still in question, we could get into branching timelines, fate vs. free will, the nature of God, & all of the shit that tends to go along with the question of foreknowledge, but last I checked, that wasn't appreciated here.

So If she appeared at the start of the story, it wouldn't be a Deus Ex Machina because then we would have known about her all along?

Let me answer your question with another question: Is Chakra a Deus Ex Machina?

Oh wait, nearly 60% of the fan base knew Minato /4th Hokage was Naruto's Dad during the training ark leading up to "Sasuke Retrieval Arc".

Thought=/=knew. There were also a number of fans speculating that Pain was his father.

So his mom being as powerful as she was made perfect sense.

Fans speculating about Naruto's dad somehow proved something about his mom?

Hell if she couldn't survive that and was piss poor weak then she'd be one big let down that makes Naruto being strong as all holy hell complete bull shit (more so then normal).

You're assuming several things:

1. She either has to be what we ended up with or piss poor weak.
2. Naruto couldn't have inherited his abilities from just his father or, in fact, neither of them. Hell, the fact that he inherited anything at all is suspect, since Chakra works a lot like muscles: Some of it is genetically determined, but the vast majority is based on how you train it.

Additionally, I fail to see how we should have expected her to survive the Kyubi's removal. She's the only character to survive a Tailed Beast being ripped out of her on natural abilities alone. Apparently, no one, not even Madara, even speculated that this was possible before.