We will now discuss Naruto is a spoilery manner.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Lithp

Too late. I'm officially making this point. If you are ordered by a king to do something, it's not destiny. If you are a general & you use tactics to steer an enemy to a disadvantageous location, it's not destiny. If you're hungry & there's nothing to eat but chips & dip, it's not destiny.

Ok screw it. I know I said I was done but now I actually read your comment and I have one final thing to say (and I swear that I'm not coming back to this thread until the next chapter is out...which will be kinda soon but still).

The worst part about arguing Destiny is that anything can be considered destined to happen. Ordered by a king to do something? It was your destiny to receive those orders. General using tactics blahblahblah? It was your destiny to steer the enemy to that location. Nothing but chips left? You were destined to eat those chips.

You saying that that it is not destiny means you don't believe it is destiny, whereas someone else will believe that it is destiny. And that's when it all boils down to beliefs, which is an argument with no end since nobody likes going back on their beliefs.


And yes I'm aware that what I just said could be used against the very same arguments I made earlier. I don't care.

And with that, I'm done. For reals this time.

[Premmy]

See, now, I was just arguing that it was the same narrative device, one that robs the main characters of their agency by presenting the idea that everything that happens is due to outside influence and whatnot.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by Lithp

No, see, this is why I'm doing this. I'm officially sick of this shit. You seem to want to be right so badly, but can't actually handle the process of proving a point. The second I take the gloves off & start taking anyone seriously, someone cuts in with this shit, & I'm expected to just shut up to appease them.

Well, I'm not backing off this time just because someone cried foul. You're wrong. You handle it. It's not fucking destiny. You didn't "prove" anything. There is a very specific definition for what constitutes a destined scenario. It is not a predicted scenario, it's a preordained one. As in something that cannot occur any other way because it was made so by the fundamental order of the universe. The Hougyokou doesn't do that. If it did, Ichigo wouldn't be able to put up any resistance against Aizen.

Most of us concede when we're wrong. Even I admit that I'm wrong most of the time. Everyone is, the point is that you're trying to WIN an argument. Besides as Arcanum posted, Destiny falls under belief which is a never ending argument.

So let's keep it dead. In fact let's try to avoid an argument on here since with you and possibly a few others, it goes on forever.

[Lithp]

The worst part about arguing Destiny is that anything can be considered destined to happen.

Well, duh. The chief definition of destiny is that an outside agent makes the choice for you. That's exactly fucking why I've been pointing out that the Hougyokou doesn't do that.

Everyone is, the point is that you're trying to WIN an argument.

No, I'm not. I'm just fucking sick of everyone saying this when I disagree with them. It's a dishonest tactic meant to explain why I'm supposed to back down & they aren't. It's not a simple disagreement, oh no. It's "I'm right, so I get to say what I want, but you have to stop talking because you're obviously just not conceding when you're wrong."

You know what I honestly have to say to that?

Fuck you, that's what. If you want to play the moral high ground, then you back down. I'm sick of appeasing everyone.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

No you didn't "post" that you instead started beating around the bush instead of out right posting it. Something you NEVER do in an argument.

[Lithp]

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

No you didn't "post" that you instead started beating around the bush instead of out right posting it. Something you NEVER do in an argument.

YES! Because every time I call someone out directly, they accuse me of being a dick!

Edit: You know what? Just because I want to shut this shit down for good, even though I don't have to prove myself innocent of this accusation, here's me standing corrected on something:

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...0&postcount=47

[Kyanbu The Legend]

It's the internet, no one I mean NO ONE, is safe from that. It's something you have to deal with when posting on the internet.

Besides everyone's a dick to some extent anyway.

[Lithp]

Bull fucking shit, okay. Where have you seen me accuse someone of having an ulterior motive for disagreeing with me? In spite of putting up with that exact same thing for the longest time, I didn't actually do it for the first time until a page ago.

You know what, though, this is my fault. By backing off all of those times someone started bitching about it, I encouraged people to think that was an acceptable method of making a point. Because for some reason, I was stupid enough to assume that this wouldn't become a thing.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I wouldn't really know. But let's keep that out of here as well. Because this thread doesn't need anymore fires.

[krogothwolf]

Uh Lithp, Destiny isn't controlling Naruto's actions. Destiny is just calling him the chosen hero. He could pick up and run away, he could become the hero in a way that doesn't involve him fighting. All it's calling him is the Chosen One. No one knows what that means.

A good example is Anakin Skywalker as the Chosen One to bring Balance to the force. His Destiny was that. How he went about that was destroy the old Jedi order. That wasn't how everyone viewed it happening. They thought Balance was destroying the Sith but the Balance was destroying the Jedi.

Destiny doesn't fully control your actions it only merely says that you have a path to follow. What that path is up to you. His "hero" action could actually be the destruction of the Ninja nation, not uniting it. You don't know what it'll be just what the outcome is, that he is a Chosen Hero to do something. How that happens ends up to the person that has that destiny.