Pokemon Umbral Discussion 33 again: Hijacked!

[Geminex]

And don't even think about posting the response I know you're thinking. Seriously, don't.

I actually don't know what you're thinking of. There's no really awesomely insulting response to this that comes to mind.

And if Renny were to lead for another mission then the scores would end up tied again!
Come on, man.

Lemme just throw something out here: It's in Pierce's interest that Impact should remain leader. Not only is there the whole 'not under the command of a 16-year-old' thing, there's also the fact that under Impact, Pierece gets to give orders preeetty much every second turn. Do you have a similar deal with Menarker? I didn't think so

What about "success while upholding the virtues we're supposed to stand for" or "success without sinking as low as the fuckers were fighting"?

Pierce gets the job done, and he saves puppies while doing it.

Yeah, but in respecting the 'virtues we stand for', we decrease our chances of success. To make success most likely, we have to disregard everything other than success. And we do want to make success as likely as possible, right? Since the consequences of not succeeding would proooobably be pretty horrible.

[sarcasm]For the greater good, right?[/sarcasm]

Wow, you're catching on!
No, seriously, I don't see how saving the world from being invaded by hordes of Ruin types is anything other than the 'greater good'.

I would, I totally would.

Pierce wouldn't, but I would.

So you're saying that they wouldn't be utterly shattered and traumatized by having to make that choice, wracked with guilt? A great... recruitment opportunity?
In that case, nice. Pierce really is more callous than he seems. You're sure he wouldn't join Impact?

Bah, you're keeping secrets and hiding plans.

Actually, I'm not. These are really just vauge allusions with no basis yet. I'll tell you about Impact's epiphany when I've arranged it, promise. Hell, maybe you can even help.

Also, you keep purposefully undermining Impact's creepiness, not to mention general assholeishness, unappreciation of his teammates and the fact that he's probably hiding an agenda.

You have to understand, they're in combat. Fighting for their lives. Impact really doesn't have any motivation to do anything but keep the team alive. Certainly he won't try to protect anyone's feelings from getting hurt because they're being unprofessional.

Keeping secrets and hiding plans.

I'm taking all of this with a fat grain of salt until you come clean.

And then I'm going to peer at it under a microscope while testing it for STDs.

Dude, this is sidequest- and sequel-related. There's so much plot-central stuff man, you wouldn't believe it. And I'm not gonna come clean with any of that. Though I promise, the deal will have no hidden catches. Come on, you've been negotiating with me for months now. Have I ever done anything like that?

Fat grain of salt.

Bluh Bluh

GTFO my Bella Chizuru, motherfucker!

You're asexual anyway!

So, wait, are you the Sparkly Vampire or the Teenage Werewolf?
Either way, my fanbase would kick your fanbase's ass.
Though why would you want fangirls? They might be flattering to begin with, but eventually they're gonna ship you with another guy, and whelp, THERE GOES YOUR DIGNITY. In fact, considering that it was Bard who suggested this, I'm almost certain that it's part of his plan to get Yuri to permeate the very fabric of pokemon Umbral. And you think I'm evil?

You basically took one aspect about him and made that the only point worth focusing on. Effectively flanderization. >_> He wouldn't go as far as you put it, because that's personal traits and motivations which not all the members share. Some of the characters on the team like Charlotte and Harriette are pretty blood-thirsty or at least not that friendly such as Matthias. He would credit it to the individual skills and talents of each of the members and that fact that they all gathered together to fight a common foe regardless of how or why they joined, which is something to be admired.

Ok, that was even more nauseatingly heart-warming than what I could have come up with. Nice one.

Firstly, Drac was on the dot regarding my point on me thinking you had it easier because you only have to peg ruin types with dragons types mostly.
Anyhow...
"In This Mission", Renny has not been ATTEMPTING to be a leader, more denigned to give advice since Impact is the designated leader as per Rayleen. It's easy to claim that Impact is showing to be more of a leader in THIS mission when Renny isn't trying to give him a run for his money. Renny however has still performed his duty of looking over his team-mates and not losing his head or getting distracted by the urge to taunt or stuff like that.

His advice really hasn't been that valuable, though.
Lemme put it this way: If Renny had been leader, and Impact his advisor, then Impact's "advice" would either have consisted of the entirety of the actual plan that they would use that turn, or the orders that Renny did give would just be way worse than the ones Impact would have given. And, once again, don't even question this. You're better at finding exploits, but I'm pretty sure that I'm beyond you in terms of large-scale tactics and strategy.

And like I said, fighting various types, that really isn't a problem. Switching pokemon is a free action, It's really easy to redeploy resources. Even if the opponent has been playing with fire pokemon so far and they suddenly deploy SIX BLASTOISE OH FUCK YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING THAT, where's the problem? Take a few water-type hits, lose a pokemon or two, then switch out until your entire team has either grass or electric moves, and wipe them out. The only possible detriment to you is that you'd lose any buffs on switched-out pokemon, but buffed pokemon don't have a very high rate of survival against Ruin types either, since they have one hell of a lot of attack power. I'm open to discussion which is harder, but I really don't think 'I had to fight different pokemon types' is a valid, or intelligent, argument.

Thus the only way that Renny's leadership can go bad when Impact is on board is if Impact was to be a sore loser or attempt to sabotage Renny openly, and if that becomes the case, everyone will know Impact to be a two-faced grunt who can only bark orders but cannot take orders from those designated as his higher-up. Which would not look good for him if Renny has an established sense of trust from his team-mates in regards to his behavior, his skills or his leadership.

Oh, come on. You don't think myself (and Impact) could come up with something more subtle than open sabotage?

Also, what's wrong with 'just barking orders' as long as they're good orders? And Renny would never be aknowleged as Impact's higher-up by him, unless it's really fucking vital to some plan.

I do agree that so far, you seem to be undermining Impact's behavior such as threat of force or Kurika thing or trying to get Renny/Pierce to shut up about "backtalk" when Rayleen designated them as Impact's advisors. The hands to his head if we wanted to go metaphorically.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. 'undermining', I always thought, means weakening a position. And the only time Impact told Pierce and Renny to shut up was when they were giving orders directly, instead of advising him. And even then he's been pretty lenient with Pierce doing what he does every second turn...

If he really truly believed that his malpulations to bring people to respect him is valuable, doesn't the fact that you plan that ability for him means that you don't actually truly believe that malipulation but sheer outright control is the way to go? Taking the easy way out because you/Impact may not actually believe malipulation can suceed over hard-earned friendship and trust in the long run? ^,^ (Of course, it's possible that Impact just becomes evilly impatient and fed up with the individual members of PATCA, believing they are the ones holding victory back with their particular traits).

Ok, that's... what? Seriously, what?
In response to the two paragraphs before that one, I don't think Impact is the ultimate in it, I'm just hoping that later he'll be in a position where he can very easily manipulate people. Not that he's really good at it, I never postulated that. And if I had, I'd be hard-pressed to prove it, since he really hasn't done much manipulation yet. Mind control won't be strong enough to establish absolute control either, it'll simply be something... supportive.

As for the actual question
What... Just... No? Yeah, I think I'm just going to have to go with 'No?' here. And also 'Why would you even think that? I mean, WHAT? Where is the logic here? It's... painful, physically painful! Just... don't do that again, ok? Next time you decide to speculate wildly in pursuit of a predetermined, idealistic conclusion and then inexpertly phrase this speculation in form of a cunning question, which, I can only assume, was cleverly designed to entrap me, just... consider. Will this question make Gem want to shoot me in the foot? If the answer is yes (and, if the question you come up with looks anything like the above, it will be), just refrain from posting it. Please? I don't want to go through that again. Though I think I will use the phrase 'evilly impatient' some time. Has a nice ring to it.'

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Lemme just throw something out here: It's in Pierce's interest that Impact should remain leader. Not only is there the whole 'not under the command of a 16-year-old' thing, there's also the fact that under Impact, Pierece gets to give orders preeetty much every second turn. Do you have a similar deal with Menarker? I didn't think so

No, not really. I'm not doing that anymore.

Y'know, unless you've suddenly decided you're okay with it and won't hold it against me in any way.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Yeah, but in respecting the 'virtues we stand for', we decrease our chances of success. To make success most likely, we have to disregard everything other than success. And we do want to make success as likely as possible, right? Since the consequences of not succeeding would proooobably be pretty horrible.

Not necessarily.

I mean, you're telling me that the great genius Impact or awesome smart Geminex couldn't possible save the world and still uphold some virtue while doing it?

For shame man, for shame.

That aside, some could argue that "success while upholding your virtues" wouldn't really make success any less likely. I'm not saying everyone has to be a boyscout, but there are lines you don't cross.

Also, some would further argue that aiming for success no matter what increases the likelihood that you're going to end up just as evil as the guys you're fighting. And if that happens, then you haven't really succeeded even if you do kill all the other guys.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Wow, you're catching on!
No, seriously, I don't see how saving the world from being invaded by hordes of Ruin types is anything other than the 'greater good'.

Wow. The point? Right over your head.

You know, the Nietzche thought it would serve the greater good to kill off all the impure ones. Of course, you already said you're not going to go about "cleansing", but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

What I'm trying to say is that "serving the greater good" is a load of crap. You should always serve just "good". Period. Fucking. Dot. That includes always saving the lives of the world at large and everyone around you.

Originally Posted by Geminex

So you're saying that they wouldn't be utterly shattered and traumatized by having to make that choice, wracked with guilt? A great... recruitment opportunity?
In that case, nice. Pierce really is more callous than he seems. You're sure he wouldn't join Impact?

Wracked with guilt? Yes. Shattered and traumatized? No.

And that's only if it came down to that under Pierce's leadership.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Actually, I'm not. These are really just vauge allusions with no basis yet. I'll tell you about Impact's epiphany when I've arranged it, promise. Hell, maybe you can even help.

Well, hurry up and quit dropping cryptic hints until you've got something concrete for me.

Originally Posted by Geminex

You have to understand, they're in combat. Fighting for their lives. Impact really doesn't have any motivation to do anything but keep the team alive. Certainly he won't try to protect anyone's feelings from getting hurt because they're being unprofessional.

And outside of combat? He's still a giant dick.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Dude, this is sidequest- and sequel-related. There's so much plot-central stuff man, you wouldn't believe it. And I'm not gonna come clean with any of that. Though I promise, the deal will have no hidden catches. Come on, you've been negotiating with me for months now. Have I ever done anything like that?

Eh. Hurry up and quit dropping cryptic hints until you've got something concrete for me.

Originally Posted by Geminex

So, wait, are you the Sparkly Vampire or the Teenage Werewolf?
Either way, my fanbase would kick your fanbase's ass.
Though why would you want fangirls? They might be flattering to begin with, but eventually they're gonna ship you with another guy, and whelp, THERE GOES YOUR DIGNITY. In fact, considering that it was Bard who suggested this, I'm almost certain that it's part of his plan to get Yuri to permeate the very fabric of pokemon Umbral. And you think I'm evil?

Like that isn't happening already.

Originally Posted by Geminex

His advice really hasn't been that valuable, though.
Lemme put it this way: If Renny had been leader, and Impact his advisor, then Impact's "advice" would either have consisted of the entirety of the actual plan that they would use that turn, or the orders that Renny did give would just be way worse than the ones Impact would have given. And, once again, don't even question this. You're better at finding exploits, but I'm pretty sure that I'm beyond you in terms of large-scale tactics and strategy.

So if Renny or Pierce became leader, you wouldn't give Menarker or myself any help with the strategy, thereby screwing yourself over when Impact dies via lousy plans?

Originally Posted by Geminex

And like I said, fighting various types, that really isn't a problem. Switching pokemon is a free action, It's really easy to redeploy resources. Even if the opponent has been playing with fire pokemon so far and they suddenly deploy SIX BLASTOISE OH FUCK YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING THAT, where's the problem? Take a few water-type hits, lose a pokemon or two, then switch out until your entire team has either grass or electric moves, and wipe them out. The only possible detriment to you is that you'd lose any buffs on switched-out pokemon, but buffed pokemon don't have a very high rate of survival against Ruin types either, since they have one hell of a lot of attack power. I'm open to discussion which is harder, but I really don't think 'I had to fight different pokemon types' is a valid, or intelligent, argument.

I gotta agree with Geminex on this one, actually.

I was making a point that Renny had to face more diverse enemies, which was different from fighting straight-up Ruin types.

I was not arguing about which one is easier or harder.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Also, what's wrong with 'just barking orders' as long as they're good orders? And Renny would never be aknowleged as Impact's higher-up by him, unless it's really fucking vital to some plan.

The point that Menarker's making is, I think, that if Renny became leader and Impact were to be wholly unsupportive, Impact would come off as a two-faced whore because when he's leader how dare someone try to give an opinion despite the fact that Renny and Pierce are actually being supportive anyway.

Originally Posted by Geminex

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. 'undermining', I always thought, means weakening a position. And the only time Impact told Pierce and Renny to shut up was when they were giving orders directly, instead of advising him. And even then he's been pretty lenient with Pierce doing what he does every second turn...

Hey, I admitted I was wrong and it's not going to happen anymore so stop talking about it like it's still going on.

I mean, read up on my last few RP posts. Do you see Pierce doing anything like that?

Originally Posted by Geminex

As for the actual question
What... Just... No? Yeah, I think I'm just going to have to go with 'No?' here. And also 'Why would you even think that? I mean, WHAT? Where is the logic here? It's... painful, physically painful! Just... don't do that again, ok? Next time you decide to speculate wildly in pursuit of a predetermined, idealistic conclusion and then inexpertly phrase this speculation in form of a cunning question, which, I can only assume, was cleverly designed to entrap me, just... consider. Will this question make Gem want to shoot me in the foot? If the answer is yes (and, if the question you come up with looks anything like the above, it will be), just refrain from posting it. Please? I don't want to go through that again. Though I think I will use the phrase 'evilly impatient' some time. Has a nice ring to it.'

Though it physically pains me to take Gem's side again...

I think Menarker's just trying to play the game, if you know what I mean.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

So, wait, are you the Sparkly Vampire or the Teenage Werewolf?
Either way, my fanbase would kick your fanbase's ass.
Though why would you want fangirls? They might be flattering to begin with, but eventually they're gonna ship you with another guy, and whelp, THERE GOES YOUR DIGNITY. In fact, considering that it was Bard who suggested this, I'm almost certain that it's part of his plan to get Yuri to permeate the very fabric of pokemon Umbral. And you think I'm evil?

Bard is trying to bring YAOI into it. Guy on Guy. Yuri is girl on girl. AB was the one who was trying to bring Yuri into it with Charlotte/Shannon.

Mind you, I prefer Yuri to Yaoi anyhow...

And like I said, fighting various types, that really isn't a problem. Switching pokemon is a free action, It's really easy to redeploy resources. Even if the opponent has been playing with fire pokemon so far and they suddenly deploy SIX BLASTOISE OH FUCK YOU WERE NOT EXPECTING THAT, where's the problem? Take a few water-type hits, lose a pokemon or two, then switch out until your entire team has either grass or electric moves, and wipe them out. The only possible detriment to you is that you'd lose any buffs on switched-out pokemon, but buffed pokemon don't have a very high rate of survival against Ruin types either, since they have one hell of a lot of attack power. I'm open to discussion which is harder, but I really don't think 'I had to fight different pokemon types' is a valid, or intelligent, argument.

See, I thought we were talking about leadership quality when we originally started this line of conversation, not which battles were easier, since you were saying that Renny's leadership experience do not match up with Impact at all.

With Ruin types battles so far, it's less about leadership and more about the quality of your troops. The orders are more or less "Find the strongest and most practical target and beat the shit out of it" because all the ruin types are the same elements, even though they might have different effects with their attacks (but pokemons are the same). No need to organize people based on anything except for whom can deal dragon/steel/psychic damage and who doesn't take quad/double damage. Those sort of foes don't exactly give a full measure of your leadership quality since almost the entire focus is based on how fast your troop's strength can outpace the pace of the ruin types' strength. Yes, there is some degree of tactics involved, but it's more of less watered down and thus the battle more boils over to the strength of the troops.

On the other hand, with diverse pokemon types, there is the entire organization of which foes have which elements weakness and controversily what sort of damage they can do. The sort of stuff that we spend TONS of time debating for the LAST RP post we did. Leadership and organization plays more of a role here because there is no uniform solidarity of elements like the ruin types so far. The leader need to decide which ally should attack which foe and which which move, although there may be multiple viable choices to choose from, some allies being more specific/restricted in which ones they are good at dealing with and so on and so forth. Plus, the priority of which foes go down first so as to minimize the element types of our allies being exploited. Leadership has much more of a prominent role when dealing with these types of foes.

Renny had demostrated more of this "leadership ability" if we take the above as true due to both missions he lead having that particular intense leadership bend.
Mind you, Impact is demostrating the same ability THIS mission because the diverse pokemon elements is what we're dealing with now. Plus, AB said that ruin types are going to be mixed with other elements in the future. Plus, I don't think there is any argument that the NPCs/PCs believe that Impact is highly competent in regards to tactics in general.
Not saying that Impact is poor leader at all. Far from that (even though I don't believe that ruthlessness is the be-all and end-all philosophy of tactics.) Just disproving your original point that Renny hasn't have a good degree of significant leadership experience.

Oh, come on. You don't think myself (and Impact) could come up with something more subtle than open sabotage?

Also, what's wrong with 'just barking orders' as long as they're good orders? And Renny would never be aknowleged as Impact's higher-up by him, unless it's really fucking vital to some plan.

What Drac said above about Impact looking twofaced if he doesn't outwardly support Renny is pretty much what I think is the situation too.
Impact might not obey Renny out of his own free will (at least with any sort of eagerness), but if Rayleen declares that Renny is leader for the mission, you can be sure that fighting against Renny's leadership without a very convincing reason during a mission is going to detract from Impact's ability to maintain influence or crediblity, whether it is Rayleen or the other team-mates thinking that Impact is too stubbornly looking at Renny's youthfulness to see whatever talents or potential he has, or unwillingness/inability to follow orders or chains of commands as issued from their boss or such like that. Of course, nothing stopping Impact from being disgruntled about the entire thing when everyone is not looking.

The point that Menarker's making is, I think, that if Renny became leader and Impact were to be wholly unsupportive, Impact would come off as a two-faced whore because when he's leader how dare someone try to give an opinion despite the fact that Renny and Pierce are actually being supportive anyway.

Though it physically pains me to take Gem's side again...

I think Menarker's just trying to play the game, if you know what I mean.

^.^ Drac is getting pretty good at translating what I say.

Anyhow, I'm going to post soon. Basically, I'll target Slot A and B with Togekiss and Shaymin's Air Slash while activating Serene Blessing.


EDIT:

Originally Posted by Geminex

His advice really hasn't been that valuable, though.
Lemme put it this way: If Renny had been leader, and Impact his advisor, then Impact's "advice" would either have consisted of the entirety of the actual plan that they would use that turn, or the orders that Renny did give would just be way worse than the ones Impact would have given. And, once again, don't even question this. You're better at finding exploits, but I'm pretty sure that I'm beyond you in terms of large-scale tactics and strategy.

Clearly, one of the better ways to decide that is to have some sort of Danger Room simulator event in the RP
1: A mission is given, listing some of the details and expections as per the debriefing.
2: Renny and Drac and Charlotte choose their pokemon movelists so as to suit the mission or so.
3: All the PCs are given the chance at "leadership" in the simulator, all are given the same resources/allies. The same pokemons movesets, the same stamina. Assume total obedience.
4: All posts are PMed to AB regarding the tactics of their own battle.
5: We find out how decently everyone fares. How fast things are completed, how many casualities or wounded, how many close calls or openings, and that sort of thing. :3

[Dracorion]

You're kidding, right?

You just know the Electric-type Ruin General is going to hack into the Danger Room for the sake of the old Holodeck cliche.

EDIT: If Menarker's hitting A and B, I say we focus fire on slots C, D and, hmm... let's go with E too. We can handle three, right?

[Menarker]

If only that general joined our side. Then we could have a holodeck with hordes of busty babes, probably including a few copies of Lola and Chizuru and what not. AB might be willing to play around with that. :3 We'd probably fail to save the world because we would never leave!

"Excuse me, Rayleen? Have you seen Renny? It's his birthday, and I wanted to suprise him."
"Really? Well, I'm sorry, Renny has been in the Holodeck since March."

Speaking of that, it's pretty much already been a year since the RP started (RP wise), so Renny should be about 17 if he is not already. I know that doesn't mean much to those who treat him as immature or childish because he was 16, but still...

ANYHOW... Back to tactics.

I got no problem with the above. C D and E, although we should focus on using Special attacks preferably due to the amplifier. If we use Moon and Shannon's tech, we can take care of F, G, H, I via flinching. Leaving only J unmolested. It's not a sure thing though since some of them might be flinch immune like some of the foes we fought already.

Which reminds me of something I wanted to talk about but forgot...

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Sure, we'd have to take most of the enemy hits but, A) when's the last time we didn't somehow disable a bunch of opponents so as not to take all of their hits? If we keep going like this, AB's going to nerf flinching, and do you really want that? and B) we can take it. Though we should probably replace Charlotte's, Harliette's, Pierce's and Moon's pokemon for more defensive ones if possible.

AB was the one who made the moves in the first place, so I don't think it'll be a problem. Plus, a few of the foes probably have customized immunity to flinch, which probably means it is already nerfed to a degree. If anything, your ability having "Null Turn" which is basically a pumped up flinch that doesn't count as flinch is the one most as risk.

[Dracorion]

Hey, as opposed to flinch not everybody and their mothers can do Null Turn. It's just Pierce.

But hey, if you want to see angelic DEMONIC naked Charlotte, fine by me.

Or you can be gay about it and see angelic naked Aster.

[Menarker]

>_> It won't show a demonic Charlotte. However, Charlotte's reaction to such a depiction might be amusing.

Anyhow, who should we be protecting? Rachel? Impact? How many people paying and whom?

Should Rachel be giving out more Rage Rockets and to whom?

Only other factor that we pretty much agree on is Wilhelmina shooting the darkne... I mean fog, fog. ^^

Meanwhile, Lexhur is stuck at 200 rage when this turn starts. But he'll have 300 when the next turn comes.

Anyhow, gotta leave for work very soon, so I wont' be able to respond for a bit.

[Bard The 5th LW]

That is a lot to read, and I have only read the most recent 3 post with no context to place them in.

And AB, if I did retire Sol-leks for Revenard, could I swap Revenard or Arceus as the leader pokemon? And give the replacement leader a custom item in Sol-lek's absence?

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Menarker

Anyhow, who should we be protecting? Rachel? Impact? How many people paying and whom?

Harliette, Matthias and Impact.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Should Rachel be giving out more Rage Rockets and to whom?

Renny and Pierce or Renny and Impact. Take your pick.

Originally Posted by Menarker

Meanwhile, Lexhur is stuck at 200 rage when this turn starts. But he'll have 300 when the next turn comes.

I thought he'd have 300 Rage this turn.

[Geminex]

[QUOTE=Dracorion;1060782]

No, not really. I'm not doing that anymore.

Y'know, unless you've suddenly decided you're okay with it and won't hold it against me in any way.

Pierce giving orders? Why wouldn't I? It's part of our deal!
Every second turn, more or less. Sure, there's times when I'm proud of a plan I came up with, and want Impact to give orders yourself, but up until your sidequest, you're entitled to give quite a few orders. Impact may not be very happy with it, but unless I just spent an hour working out when to have whom attack during which weather condition, (or something similar), you're free to give orders about as frequently as Impact.



Not necessarily.

I mean, you're telling me that the great genius Impact or awesome smart Geminex couldn't possible save the world and still uphold some virtue while doing it?

If it's possible to save the world and uphold virtue, Impact will do so. But if he thinks that there's a choice between virtue and world-saving, he will, without hesitation, go for world-saving.

You know, the Nietzche thought it would serve the greater good to kill off all the impure ones. Of course, you already said you're not going to go about "cleansing", but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Well, yes. But Nietzshe's postulate was based on the bullshit justification that the human race would become more pure and therefor stronger. Whereas Imact's postulate of 'screw ethics, I'm saving the world!' would be based on the less-bullshit justification that the world would not be a very fun place if it was overrun by masses of Ruin Pokemon.

Look, sure, maybe it's possible to save the world and save puppies. But this is a pretty big task ahead of us. Maybe it isn't. Maybe saving puppies now will take precious time and resources, time and resources that we'd need later. Is that a risk we can take? I don't think it is.

That includes always saving the lives of the world at large and everyone around you.

What if you, quite simply, can't?

And outside of combat? He's still a giant dick.

Oh come on. Like when? Before mission 1 he was super-civilised. Mission 2 as well. Hell, after mission two he even started a trend! "Collect trophies from defeated Ruin Generals". He wasn't very courteous before Renny's sidequest, but can you fucking blame him? And hell, he was nice during the party, he let Pierce keep the dragon slave, what more do you want?

Seriously, when has he been a giant dick?

So if Renny or Pierce became leader, you wouldn't give Menarker or myself any help with the strategy, thereby screwing yourself over when Impact dies via lousy plans?

My philosophy is as follows: Any death is worth dying, as long as you can die it, saying 'I told you so'.
And hell, even if it did come that far, I'd wait until we had almost lost, until we were at the edge of the abyss, the brink of collapse, and then I'd burst out with the one, singular plan that could still save us and Impact would be this huge fucking hero, and then I'd be all like WHO'S THE LEADER NOW, BITCH?



The point that Menarker's making is, I think, that if Renny became leader and Impact were to be wholly unsupportive, Impact would come off as a two-faced whore because when he's leader how dare someone try to give an opinion despite the fact that Renny and Pierce are actually being supportive anyway.

Like I said. Wholly unsupportive? No. Subtle sabotage? Fuck yeah.
And allright, allright, you've been under-appreciated. Impact will generously praise everyone when the battle's done. He might even hand out a few hugs. Won't that be nice?

Hey, I admitted I was wrong and it's not going to happen anymore so stop talking about it like it's still going on.

Like I said, see above. It's your right to give orders. Unless the orders are really fucking good and I want to credit them to Impact, in which case you can go twice next time.

Just disproving your original point that Renny hasn't have a good degree of significant leadership experience.

My original point was actually that Impact makes less mistakes than Renny, but ok, let's just finish this.



What Drac said above about Impact looking twofaced if he doesn't outwardly support Renny is pretty much what I think is the situation too.
Impact might not obey Renny out of his own free will (at least with any sort of eagerness), but if Rayleen declares that Renny is leader for the mission, you can be sure that fighting against Renny's leadership without a very convincing reason during a mission is going to detract from Impact's ability to maintain influence or crediblity, whether it is Rayleen or the other team-mates thinking that Impact is too stubbornly looking at Renny's youthfulness to see whatever talents or potential he has, or unwillingness/inability to follow orders or chains of commands as issued from their boss or such like that. Of course, nothing stopping Impact from being disgruntled about the entire thing when everyone is not looking.

Dude. Like I said, subtlety. I'd get an opportunity or seven, I'm sure, to do anything from making Renny look immature, to making him look stupid to making him look like he just got hit in the forehead with a 120 mm artillery round.

Clearly, one of the better ways to decide that is to have some sort of Danger Room simulator event in the RP
1: A mission is given, listing some of the details and expections as per the debriefing.
2: Renny and Drac and Charlotte choose their pokemon movelists so as to suit the mission or so.
3: All the PCs are given the chance at "leadership" in the simulator, all are given the same resources/allies. The same pokemons movesets, the same stamina. Assume total obedience.
4: All posts are PMed to AB regarding the tactics of their own battle.
5: We find out how decently everyone fares. How fast things are completed, how many casualities or wounded, how many close calls or openings, and that sort of thing. :3

A contest? Sure, if AB's ok with it.
Question is...
what are the stakes?

The immediate idea would be leadership...
But, whelp, Impact's leader already. All I'd be gaining is that you'd shut up about it, and with all due respect to your nagging, that just isn't enough.
Because, if I lose (not that that's likely, but it's certainly possible), whelp, goodbye Impact, hello Team Leader Renny!
That's not a good deal, for me.

Let me... make a better one.
If I lose, Renny, Pierce and Impact are named tacticians, on equal footing. They each make suggestions to Rayleen (or some other NPC), who pieces together the plan. The suggestions that they'll make are the suggestions we'll individually make OOC, the final plan that Rayleen will come up with is the one that we'll have decided upon.

If I win... whelp, suggest me something. I've got two things in mind, but I'd like to see what you come up with while I consider how to be phrase my favorite.

Mind you, I'm of half a mind to say 'screw it' and just get together with Bard to help Charlotte win. God, that'd be hilarious.