character VERSUS character VERSUS another character VERSUS your mother

[ArlanKels]

Dunn was never put in a sleeperhold in the movie.
He did put the sleeperhold on someone, however. This is where his advantage in a fight was shown, because the guy couldn't get him off.
And they showed a REALISTIC sleeperhold, one of those "This guy is thrashing for a good minute to two minutes before collapsing".

All Dunn would have to do is put McCain in said sleeperhold and he'd win, because he simply does not let go, even when being smashed hard against walls/etc.


Dunn can be killed by a lack of oxygen, however, as that's not "breaking" him at all. It's depriving.

[Archbio]

He did put the sleeperhold on someone, however. This is where his advantage in a fight was shown, because the guy couldn't get him off.
And they showed a REALISTIC sleeperhold, one of those "This guy is thrashing for a good minute to two minutes before collapsing".

I can't understand why I remembered that scene the other way around. It's a very effective scene.

Dunn can be killed by a lack of oxygen

I'd note that it wasn't really established that it wasn't the water itself, and that it wouldn't make much less sense, but pretty much, I think.

[Sithdarth]

You were kind of arguing otherwise earlier.

No I was arguing that a bullet would knock him out and that when he started waking up again McClain could just you know shoot him again. There are these magic things called clips that people put into guns and they magically allow you to shoot more than once.

As for the notion that McClain would know that Dunn wasn't dead: even if it was certain he would (and it's not), he'd probably attribute it to him missing rather than Dunn being a freak of nature. So then, to prevent Dunn from getting the upper hand, he'd have to shoot him in the head again while he was down. Otherwise, then he would have no means of being sure Dunn was actually dead, and Dunn wouldn't be affected.

I mean seriously have you ever fired a gun. You know if you miss and if you don't. For one bullets make a hell of a sound when the hit and go through something remotely hard. When they hit something and stop dead its rather loud. Also, its pretty hard to think you missed when the guy stagger and.or falls over especially combined with the sound of a bullet stopping dead and flattening out on his skull.

Further, Dunn demonstrated his actually not that great of a fighter and even then superior strength does not alone give him the victory. I mean sure after the initial bullet McClain would probably walk up closer but probably not within actual arms reach. Especially if he suspected something fishy because of that very loud sound the bullet made, the lack of blood and brain, and Dunn doing all the things people generally do when disoriented.

Again, Dunn can try to put the drop on McClain. Advantage Dunn.

It seems even more likely that McClain wouldn't shoot him in the head to begin with, and then almost certainly think Dunn is dead.

I really don't see the certain upper hand, and I think the fact that McClain has been portrayed as falling for the kind of thing that are part of Dunn's edge in his own film (being saved by his sidekick) really speaks against McClain as super-thorough-perceptive-scientist-killer.

McClain might be a little gullible but he's killed enough people to release something was wrong. He might not immediately put it together but he'd know something was wrong as soon as he shot Dunn. Even if he did immediately assume Dunn was dead and walked away that doesn't automatically give Dunn the win. Dunn doesn't strike me as a very silent man and is likely to be less quite when getting up with a mild concussion.

(Here is the more I was talking about.)
This fight is less about the brute strength of both characters and more about what they've demonstrated as strengths and weaknesses. McClain is a bit of a planner and problem solver. Now most of his plans are down spur of the moment but there is logic and thought to them. This gives him the opportunity to eventually figure a way to kill Dunn. After all if there is one thing McClain is good at figuring out its how to kill people when the odds are against him and how to survive the impossible.

This is contrasted by Dunn's unique ability to survive basically all the conventional methods McClain might try. Which is basically his only strength aside from touch telepathy. He's not a planner and doesn't seem especially bright. If anything he's a good deal more gullible than McClain. So the fight is almost down to luck. Its basically thus, would Dunn get lucky and get his hands on McClain or will McClain get lucky and accidentally knock Dunn into some water.

[ArlanKels]

~A MURDER HAS HAPPENED~

Sherlock Holmes & Watson
Psych's Shawn Spencer & Gus
Monk's Adrian Monk & Natalie(Or the other girl, whichever you prefer)

Who shall solve it first?

[Archbio]

There are these magic things called clips that people put into guns and they magically allow you to shoot more than once.

Ah. I'm done here.

~A MURDER HAS HAPPENED~

If it was just Holmes-Watson and Monk-Sidekick, I think on average it'd be Holmes. Basically Monk is Holmes but slowed down. Unless I'm missing something, I've only seen a couple Monk episodes.

[ArlanKels]

I still don't get why we're arguing about McClain vs Dunn.

McClain, in the movies, ALWAYS gets beat up by the badguys. ALWAYS. He gets punched, shot, thrown, grabbed, choked, tossed off buildings, etc.

So it's a guarantee that Dunn is going to get his hands on McClain, due to McClain's past luck with avoiding physical contact. The fact that Dunn has past football experience, is in shape and stays in shape, and is a security guard means that he can probably move very fast on his feet, which means he could run straight to McClain. McClain would then try to fight him off with fistacuffs + dirty shots(kick to the nuts), but that wouldn't work, Dunn would get ahold of him. Game over for McClain.

[Sithdarth]

No, I mean when you were like 'well he shoots him in the head and drags him to the Pacific Ocean while he's out.'

Yeah again, Dunn starts groaning and moving and bang another bullet to the head. I mean really guns have more than one bullet why would he suddenly stop doing the only thing proven to put Dunn out.

Ah. I'm done here.

I'm sorry for being snarky but it seemed like a very very VERY obvious solution to me. If you knock a guy out and he starts to wake up and you want to knock him out again then you just hit him. I mean how could you not immediately assume that.

Also I did say this:

And really after McClain puts him you with a gun shot to the head its not to hard to keep him that way.

Which I admit isn't terribly clear but it does strongly suggest that I had acknowledged the fact Dunn would wake up relatively soon after the shot to the head and that more would be required to keep him in that state.

Edit:

I still don't get why we're arguing about McClain vs Dunn.

McClain, in the movies, ALWAYS gets beat up by the badguys. ALWAYS. He gets punched, shot, thrown, grabbed, choked, tossed off buildings, etc.

So it's a guarantee that Dunn is going to get his hands on McClain, due to McClain's past luck with avoiding physical contact.

Eventually yes. Right away not so certain. McClain relies on bullets far more than fists. Fists are a fall back for when he doesn't have bullets. Which is why for me this is still a toss up. One or the other would have to get a fairly lucky break to become the winner.

[I_Like_Swordchucks]

I'm just going to point out something...

How the hell do you know water can kill him? Did he die? Did water kill him at any point in the movie?

No. It can hurt him, presumably because of the lack of oxygen to the brain causing the brain meats to stop working, but since he IS unbreakable, his cells wouldn't break apart and die like normal cells would. Its quite possible that he could be revived from any 'death' because he wouldn't take any damage. Ever.

For all we know, David Dunn cannot die. Knocked out, yes. Hurt, yes. But as long as the body remains intact, he could ALWAYS be revived. Or potentially. We don't know.

[Sithdarth]

I'm just going to point out something...

How the hell do you know water can kill him? Did he die? Did water kill him at any point in the movie?

No. It can hurt him, presumably because of the lack of oxygen to the brain causing the brain meats to stop working, but since he IS unbreakable, his cells wouldn't break apart and die like normal cells would. Its quite possible that he could be revived from any 'death' because he wouldn't take any damage. Ever.

For all we know, David Dunn cannot die. Knocked out, yes. Hurt, yes. But as long as the body remains intact, he could ALWAYS be revived. Or potentially. We don't know.

In which case we count incapacitation as a win. But in all likely hood if Dunn was sunk to the bottom of a body of water for a few days and fished up cold to the touch no one would try to revive him. As such his body will never become warm enough to function again and even if it did somehow get warmed up it just wouldn't start up on its own. There would need to be some kind of electrical stimulation of the heart and brain to get him running again. So he'd be dead in every sense of the word just potentially able to be raised.

[ArlanKels]

Originally Posted by Sithdarth

Yeah again, Dunn starts groaning and moving and bang another bullet to the head. I mean really guns have more than one bullet why would he suddenly stop doing the only thing proven to put Dunn out.



I'm sorry for being snarky but it seemed like a very very VERY obvious solution to me. If you knock a guy out and he starts to wake up and you want to knock him out again then you just hit him. I mean how could you not immediately assume that.

Also I did say this:


Which I admit isn't terribly clear but it does strongly suggest that I had acknowledged the fact Dunn would wake up relatively soon after the shot to the head and that more would be required to keep him in that state.

Edit:


Eventually yes. Right away not so certain. McClain relies on bullets far more than fists. Fists are a fall back for when he doesn't have bullets. Which is why for me this is still a toss up. One or the other would have to get a fairly lucky break to become the winner.

And Dunn has his own gun, and his own training in using it.
So in a gunfight between Dunn and McClain, the guy who is bulletproof would win.