OH GOD BIOWARE WHAT THE FUCK HAVE YOU DONE

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

I have to concede that Mass Effect remains pretty much the only fantasy and/or sci fi story involving multiple races (defining 'races' as 'different species') in which humanity didn't come off as the most dickish / evil option.

I mean sure, our progression still stems from a sort of ambition, but at least in this universe that ambition has positive elements, as opposed to simply being a platform for the author to scream "THIS IS WHY HUMANS SUCK!!!" and trying to use his/her story as a platform to merely critique everything that is so terribly wrong with the human race and how other societies are just so much better than ours for figuring basic things like Peace and Environmentalism and Not Being a Douchebag out.

To be fair as a race in general we do kind of suck at those things.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Sifright

To be fair as a race in general we do kind of suck at those things.

But why is every author convinced for some reason that every other intelligent race out there in the universe wouldn't be crippled by its own unique flaws and prejudices?

[Sifright]

Well, maybe I don't have as much exposure to the material thats made you form that opinion because most of what i've seen has alien races being just as flawed in different ways in most sci-fi i've watched any way.

[Azisien]

Meanwhile, in the months before January 26-30 2010....

AUUUGH I THINK MASS EFFECT 2 HAS LOST ITS SOUL GUISE, JUST LOOK AT ALL THE CHANGES THEY ARE MAKING AUUUUUGH




Oh wait they just mostly tightened everything up and it was awesome.

2+ years development for a game on a game engine that's already made isn't really too short either, so I don't understand any "rushed development" arguments. Rushed compared to whom? Blizzard? Valve?

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Azisien

AUUUGH I THINK MASS EFFECT 2 HAS LOST ITS SOUL GUISE, JUST LOOK AT ALL THE CHANGES THEY ARE MAKING AUUUUUGH

I never made that argument.

[Sifright]

Mass effect 2 was terrible compared to the first (For main story line) so any one that argued that was pretty much dead on. incredibly linear storyline is linear, not to mention the INCREDIBLE SUBTLETY needed to work out who needs to go where in the final mission if they made it any more obvious it would just auto set the characters to the team positions.

[Osterbaum]

ME2 was throughly ejoyable and the writing is good and I enjoyed all the quests, but I agree ME1 overall story was more interesting. I didn't buy it that ENTIRE COLONIES disappearing wasn't a bigger deal to everyone. I was also bothered by the ending, I would've preferred a real challenge in not getting everyone killed.

e: I guess that last bit wouldn't have been as big a bother, if they hadn't marketed it as YOU CAN FUCK IT ALL UP AND DIE IN THIS GAME FOR REALSIES, yeah maybe if you're a total idiot.

e2: Like the best thing would've kinda been something like the decision on Virmire but between better characters like, say Garrus or Mordin or Thane or anyone else (except Jacob and Miranda).

[Krylo]

There are actually threads from shortly after the release of ME3 wherein people complain because Grunt died in the tubes at the beginning, or after they put him in head of a squad or any other absolutely ridiculous character choice.

Also, Mordin randomly dying (also, I believe Tali and MAYBE Thane can) because he's not suited to holding the line.

I'm not saying it wasn't really really easy to figure out who goes where, but some people really are that dumb.

ALSO: ME1 may have had a better story, but ME2 was a far superior GAME.

[Osterbaum]

Yeah, I mean yay for getting rid of that stupid inventory screen, but boo for maybe oversimplifying it a bit with the upgrades.

Yay for getting rid of the Mako, but boo for getting rid of the vehicle sections/planetary exploration. And the Hammerhead parts don't count, they aren't very good. And neither is the Hammerhead itself really.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Krylo

ALSO: ME1 may have had a better story, but ME2 was a far superior GAME.

I'll even go so far as to say that I preferred ME2's overarching storyline (with the possible exception of the fact that it didn't really advance the Reapers as antagonists.)

The six things I preferred about ME1 were:
1: Open exploration of planets (if you forgot about the Mako's clunky as fuck controls, the scenery porn in ME1's actually stuck with me far longer than ME2's, despite ME2's superior graphics, and a lot of that had to do with the incredible astronomical vistas you could just sit back and enjoy at some of the optional planets.)

2: The Virmire Decision (just better executed in every feasible way compared to similar decisions you made in ME2.)
Actually, Virmire generally -- the planet as a whole constitutes one of my favorite overall experiences with the entire franchise.

3: The Citadel: I really preferred the version of the Citadel you explored in ME1 over ME2. The Presidium was sorely missed.

4: Wrex was (and still is) better than Grunt.

5: Although the Shadow Broker DLC did a great job with (finally) fleshing out Liara, before that DLC I was really disappointed with how Liara's role was handled in the original game as released, as preferred ME1 Liara insofar as ME1 Liara actually contributed more than just a cameo scene or two to the plotline.

6: Some paragon / renegade choices were handled with more nuance in ME1 than ME2. ME2 made it really easy to just blindly choose one option or the other consistently, with the exception of the Interrupts, which you nearly always chose regardless. Other 'decisions' were just obvious no-brainers, like there's a few Paragon options in ME2 I always choose regardless of alignment. And destroying the base (as opposed to EMPing it for Illusive Man) is such a flagrantly obvious choice in the endgame that even Miranda supports that outcome and none of your squadmates oppose it, whereas EMPing leads to nearly every squadmate bitching.

By contrast, some ME1 decisions caused me to pause and reflect and choose options that did not coincide with my character's alignment; the DLC's endgame choice with the hostages and the terrorist was a bitch, whether to kill off the Rachni in Noveria was a bitch, the unavoidable Virmire sacrifice was particularly painful, even the final decision with the Council and the human fleet was somewhat more difficult. I have no playthroughs where I EMPed the base (even as a Renegade), but I do have one playthrough where I chose humanity's best interest with its fleet over the Council's.

Really, everything else about ME2 was better than ME1, including the depth of most of the characters, quality of the script, gameplay mechanics, music, graphics, action sequences, sidequests, vehicles, quantity and quality of squadmates, etc.
I even preferred Harbinger over Sovereign as a villain which probably puts me in the minority. The personal touch with the taunts really put him over the top.