If you live in the United States, you should be disgusted with your country - Page 19

synkr0nized · 12-04-2014, 10:38 PM

What the shit?

They do know that this is a bad thing and not a competition, right?

I thought it was really great that PSU students organized and ran a "Die In" this week. Unfortunately I am hearing from folks there that response was either to find it annoying with respect to getting around OR to find it a little thought provoking, no and. And I don't know that those who actually took a moment to think about the topic and what the students were doing have been motivated to do anything else, I suppose much like myself who is just sharing the story at the moment.

Kyanbu The Legend · 12-05-2014, 12:12 AM

Kim, honestly the last thing these good officers should do is leave. They are needed just as much as the protesters.

That aside.

Not sure if this was posted but Loehmann seems have a history of maturity issues.
http://news.yahoo.com/cleveland-cop-...opstories.html

And it seems the Cleveland Police Department has a number of officers that aren't exactly well trained.
http://news.yahoo.com/holder-issue-d...162038015.html

---------- Post added 12-05-2014 at 12:12 AM ---------- Previous post was 12-04-2014 at 11:57 PM ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nique

Not at all! And I understand. It really isn't funny. It's sad how polarizing it is.

e.g. Charles Barkley is awful

I don't agree with his opinion but I see the point he's trying to make. However it doesn't excuse the fact that they could have handled him better seeing as this was a pretty minor offense to begin with despite his criminal record. And they already out numbered him so dog piling wasn't even necessary. Eric's big but he's not the Hulk.

Not really awful since under a different situation, Charles would be right. But in this case, no.

You know it's really starting to look like these officers might not have been trained all that well in some of these cases.

Nique · 12-05-2014, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

Kim, honestly the last thing these good officers should do is leave. They are needed just as much as the protesters.

I really disagree with this. For one thing, I don't see how this isn't a reflection of a fundamental problem with police in general. That being that the police can, legally, easily use lethal force, if, indeed, the problem is not that they are permitted to do so at all. I think we have to look at what kind of personality is inclined to pursue and maintain a career where their de facto image is that of shooting people.

For another thing, what is even a 'good' person supposed to do among a the evident culture of the Police? The most successful employees are going to adapt to and navigate their company culture well. We are influenced by our surroundings. If 'good' cops don't leave when they see intolerable and systemic problems that they are not in a position to change, they will most certainly be changed by the environment they choose to subject themselves to, or at least enablers of it.

Quote:

I don't agree with his opinion but I see the point he's trying to make.

It seems like he has absolutely nothing useful to say, as that point appears to be 'this is black peoples' fault'.

If you think there's a more eloquent point behind such flippant comments as 'the police getting a little aggressive' in the case of Eric Garner, I'm all ears.

Quote:

However it doesn't excuse the fact that they could have handled him better seeing as this was a pretty minor offense to begin with despite his criminal record.

I would just like to offer that Eric Garner's criminal record consisted principally of selling loosies.

Kyanbu The Legend · 12-05-2014, 07:40 AM

Charles believes Eric's death was just an accident and not an intended homicide. However even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't need to dog pile the guy and strangle hold him. The later of which is against the department's policies.

Nique · 12-05-2014, 05:25 PM

Quote:

However even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't need to dog pile the guy and strangle hold him. The later of which is against the department's policies

Right. What it actually looks like criminally negligent homicide.

I understand, to a degree, why many people do not want to believe that the current state of affairs is as bad as it actually is. No one wants to feel like their culture is one where authorities are at fault when they kill children, and that it all must just be some kind of horrible misunderstanding. Defensiveness is like, the natural inclination of everybody everywhere.

But that position is childish, ignorant, and unconscionable. It isn't a position that I can respect simply because someone thinks it and I'm 'supposed to'. It's wrong.

I believe in healthy dialogue, and in looking at all sides of an issue. But that dialogue cannot begin with denial of established facts and the complete disregard for life barefacedly masquerading as 'fair-minded'. People like Charles Barkley are not simply 'fairly representing one-side of an issue', they are lying.

Nikose Tyris · 12-06-2014, 12:50 AM

Every 28 hours.

Witnesses say he was unarmed, police say he was armed with a knife. So they put a bullet in his head, and stood with guns drawn as he died on the street. There's even a handy photo with another officer moving to stop the cameraman.

Edit:

Another Witness to the Mike Brown murder was himself murdered. Read story here.

Solid Snake · 12-06-2014, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nique

Right. What it actually looks like criminally negligent homicide.

I'd actually argue this is cut and dry second-degree murder.
Though a decent prosecutor would bring exclusive murder and manslaughter charges and let the jury choose which best fit the crime.

Nikose Tyris · 12-11-2014, 10:10 PM

1. It's still happening.

2. Y'all are still murdering black people.

3. The more you see it the harder it is to defend, isn't it?

---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ----------

Bonus Point 4. Also, for those saying the instigators of looting are the protesters

Kyanbu The Legend · 12-11-2014, 10:29 PM

Also related.

http://news.yahoo.com/black-officers...-politics.html

Nikose Tyris · 12-12-2014, 11:41 AM

Essentially a restraining order placed against the police by the protesters.

the TL;DR of it is:

1) Clear and obvious reason to need to use chemical weapons before using them (i.e. Tear Gas)
2) PLENTY of warning from the police before tear gas
3) Ensure no harm comes to those who respond and react appropriately (instead of targeting those people)

Also, while not noted in the news post above, the judge also called out the various bail elevations as basically being absolute bullshit. I gotta find the PDF again to link it with the details, but I think he 0'd the bail owing so everyone who has been arrested is basically getting out now?

Also here's the twitter account of Alexis, one of the people fighting to protect protesters and obtain freedom.

---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ----------

Nope, I misread the bail stuff.

Here's the injunction order for everyone but mostly Snake's benefit.

12-04-2014, 10:38 PM	#181
synkr0nized synk-ism Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: throughout the Wired Posts: 6,857	You'd think recent press would emphasize, "hey cut that shit out". What the shit? They do know that this is a bad thing and not a competition, right? I thought it was really great that PSU students organized and ran a "Die In" this week. Unfortunately I am hearing from folks there that response was either to find it annoying with respect to getting around OR to find it a little thought provoking, no and. And I don't know that those who actually took a moment to think about the topic and what the students were doing have been motivated to do anything else, I suppose much like myself who is just sharing the story at the moment. __________________ Find love. Last edited by synkr0nized; 12-04-2014 at 10:42 PM.

12-05-2014, 07:40 AM	#184
Kyanbu The Legend Local Rookie Indie Dev Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,497	Charles believes Eric's death was just an accident and not an intended homicide. However even if that is the case, it doesn't change the fact that they didn't need to dog pile the guy and strangle hold him. The later of which is against the department's policies. __________________

12-11-2014, 10:29 PM	#189
Kyanbu The Legend Local Rookie Indie Dev Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 5,497	Also related. http://news.yahoo.com/black-officers...-politics.html __________________ Last edited by Kyanbu The Legend; 12-11-2014 at 11:09 PM.

12-06-2014, 12:50 AM	#186
Nikose Tyris Trash Goblin Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Coldwater, Ontario Posts: 6,433	Every 28 hours. Witnesses say he was unarmed, police say he was armed with a knife. So they put a bullet in his head, and stood with guns drawn as he died on the street. There's even a handy photo with another officer moving to stop the cameraman. Edit: Another Witness to the Mike Brown murder was himself murdered. Read story here.

12-11-2014, 10:10 PM	#188
Nikose Tyris Trash Goblin Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Coldwater, Ontario Posts: 6,433	1. It's still happening. 2. Y'all are still murdering black people. 3. The more you see it the harder it is to defend, isn't it? ---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 PM ---------- Bonus Point 4. Also, for those saying the instigators of looting are the protesters

12-12-2014, 11:41 AM	#190
Nikose Tyris Trash Goblin Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Coldwater, Ontario Posts: 6,433	Essentially a restraining order placed against the police by the protesters. the TL;DR of it is: 1) Clear and obvious reason to need to use chemical weapons before using them (i.e. Tear Gas) 2) PLENTY of warning from the police before tear gas 3) Ensure no harm comes to those who respond and react appropriately (instead of targeting those people) Also, while not noted in the news post above, the judge also called out the various bail elevations as basically being absolute bullshit. I gotta find the PDF again to link it with the details, but I think he 0'd the bail owing so everyone who has been arrested is basically getting out now? Also here's the twitter account of Alexis, one of the people fighting to protect protesters and obtain freedom. ---------- Post added at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 AM ---------- Nope, I misread the bail stuff. Here's the injunction order for everyone but mostly Snake's benefit.