The Drug War

[AnonT]

Originally Posted by Igbutton

Well I wouldn't care if pot was legalized, I think it smells like crap so it's just as disgusting as cigarettes to me.

But for 'harder' drugs I just can't imagine a system that allows their use that wouldn't result in abuse and many more stories like Mike's. Certainly people exist that can keep their shit together and snort coke, but even if the ratio of 'Mikes' to level-headed druggies was 1 to 1 (I think the number of Mikes would outweigh the other by a landslide) it would still be too many.

So I think the drug war while ripe with corruption and profiling like Odjn/(Fifth?) implied it's still better than complete freedom of choice and I don't believe there is a middle ground that leave us any better off.

Of course, complete legalization would probably result in a higher imprisonment and overdose percentage than we currently have, and thusly the number of fucked up druggies would, in theory, decrease to a much more acceptable level over time. In a big picture way that's a good thing but I think the shit that would happen during that decrease would be unacceptable.

Gotta disagree with you here at least in part. If those drugs were legal but regulated, the government could control how much of each substance is in whatever is sold, how pure the substance is, make sure there's no unintended chemicals in whatever's sold (with manmade drugs like meth, a large portion of the health risk is simply that it's very easy to make it wrong and make something worse for your health, so although that's hardly the only problem with meth, legalization would make it less risky). Also, many people who have drug problems have trouble coming forward about them, especially if they're in the lower class and/or have no connections to the right people, because trying to find help for your addiction can land you in jail if that addiction is illegal. If those drugs were legal, they could come forward for help without the fear of jail time.

And anyway, I have met people who do coke from time to time whose lives don't get totally fucked up by it. Not my drug of choice, but you have to think, anyone who's doing coke regularly has to get the money to do it from somewhere, most long-time users have found ways to hold stable jobs, the people I've met who do use it are careful only to use it after work when they don't have work the next day. Some people let their lives get screwed up by drugs, just like some people let their lives get screwed up by alcohol, or gambling, or any number of other non-chemical obsessions and addictions. However, for each of these things there are some people who have the responsibility to indulge in them with restraint, only to the point they can handle. In order for a drug to remain commercially viable over the long term, a significant portion of its consumers would have to be able to maintain a stable life in order to continue purchasing the drug. Those illegal drugs which are both so addictive and so damaging that the majority of their users can't hold a job and use the drug generally don't see wide use because people who see what the drug does and don't want their lives ruined by it stay away from it. In my opinion, marijuana is so popular because it's both so unaddictive and does so little damage to a person that the vast majority of its users hold stable jobs, get educations, and go on to lead productive lives.

That said, I think it's perfectly reasonable to make a drug illegal if causes a user to lose control of their actions in a way that causes a significant risk to other people. PCP is a good example. In the case of drugs that can be risky depending on what you attempt to do while using them, like drinking/toking/etc. and driving, it should only be illegal to do things that are risky to others while using the drug.

[Fifthfiend]

I also feel it is worth mentioning that were you to eradicate all drugs from the face of the earth the kids will just start asphyxiating each other or some such thing.

[adamark]

Originally Posted by Fifthfiend

I also feel it is worth mentioning that were you to eradicate all drugs from the face of the earth the kids will just start asphyxiating each other or some such thing.

WOW.

"They watch it on YouTube, or hear about it in school or at summer camp, said Sharron Grant, a Canadian woman who was a founder of an advocacy group called Games Adolescents Shouldn't Play (GASP)."

They started a group called GASP. Will people ever stop making stupid puns?

The choke game is a good example of natural selection. Personally, I don't feel like sharing this planet with people dumb enough to do that.

[AnonT]

Totally agreed. In fact, that almost makes me wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet, just so that stupid people would have no choice but to strangle themselves.

[Lady Cygnet]

Originally Posted by AnonT

In fact, that almost makes me wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet

I'm assuming that you mean drugs that are currently considered illicit or illegal, because a complete lack of drugs would cause a lot of pain and suffering for people suffering from various illnesses ranging from simple infections to MRSA to cancer to chronic pain to AIDS.

I favor legalizing certain drugs and then taxing them as heavily as alcohol and tobacco are taxed. Frankly speaking, the US government is missing a great way to make extra revenue. As with alcohol and tobacco, though, all legalized recreational drugs should be subject to laws that enforce personal responsibility and common sense when indulging.

[AnonT]

Originally Posted by Lady Cygnet

I'm assuming that you mean drugs that are currently considered illicit or illegal, because a complete lack of drugs would cause a lot of pain and suffering for people suffering from various illnesses ranging from simple infections to MRSA to cancer to chronic pain to AIDS.

Eh, suffering is a part of life. Why should religious nuts get a monopoly on it?

But yeah, I don't actually wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet. I'd settle for eradicating all stupid people from the planet, but they won't even let us spay and neuter them, much less remove them entirely.

[Lady Cygnet]

Originally Posted by AnonT

But yeah, I don't actually wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet. I'd settle for eradicating all stupid people from the planet, but they won't even let us spay and neuter them, much less remove them entirely.

One's level of stupidity is subject to the point of view of one's observer, so it's almost entirely subjective. If you did engage in spay/neuter programs for people that you feel were stupid, you would most likely be called an elitist, a eugenicist, and you'd be subject to penalties through various governments, regardless of whether or not your arguments for sterilization were based on sound data.

Getting back to the topic, legalizing several drugs that are currently illicit would create an environment where those who do not exercise personal responsibility, do not act with common sense, and those who are willfully ignorant could very well eradicate themselves through irresponsible use. The only real downside to that is that the actions of those who choose to behave in such a manner affect those who do not or those who have no personal choice, such as the person's young children or bystanders who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. By legalizing those drugs though, natural selection does its job without anyone looking like he or she is practicing eugenics.

[Fifthfiend]

Originally Posted by adamark

WOW.

"They watch it on YouTube, or hear about it in school or at summer camp, said Sharron Grant, a Canadian woman who was a founder of an advocacy group called Games Adolescents Shouldn't Play (GASP)."

They started a group called GASP. Will people ever stop making stupid puns?

The choke game is a good example of natural selection. Personally, I don't feel like sharing this planet with people dumb enough to do that.

Adamark, discussion-banned for a week, I mean you've been told and told.

Originally Posted by AnonT

Totally agreed. In fact, that almost makes me wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet, just so that stupid people would have no choice but to strangle themselves.

Originally Posted by AnonT

Eh, suffering is a part of life. Why should religious nuts get a monopoly on it?

But yeah, I don't actually wish all drugs were eradicated from the planet. I'd settle for eradicating all stupid people from the planet, but they won't even let us spay and neuter them, much less remove them entirely.

AnonT, warned, and go read the discussion-forum rules to which you have obviously paid no attention whatsoever. "Religious nuts"? "Spay and neuter the stupid?" I don't know what in the hell kind of definition of "discussion" you're using but it ain't the one we use here.

One's level of stupidity is subject to the point of view of one's observer, so it's almost entirely subjective. If you did engage in spay/neuter programs for people that you feel were stupid, you would most likely be called an elitist, a eugenicist, and you'd be subject to penalties through various governments, regardless of whether or not your arguments for sterilization were based on sound data.

Getting back to the topic, legalizing several drugs that are currently illicit would create an environment where those who do not exercise personal responsibility, do not act with common sense, and those who are willfully ignorant could very well eradicate themselves through irresponsible use. The only real downside to that is that the actions of those who choose to behave in such a manner affect those who do not or those who have no personal choice, such as the person's young children or bystanders who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. By legalizing those drugs though, natural selection does its job without anyone looking like he or she is practicing eugenics.

Man, nobody reads those rules at all, do they? Discussion-warned and you know as a general comment on the last few posts, I am gonna go ahead and say that my program of forced extermination for stupid people, is gonna start with anyone fucking stupid enough to confuse 'lack of personal responsibility' and, you know, addiction, it isn't that fucking hard I even think they explain it in schools.

Oh my was that insulting? Did I hurt the feelings of any fucking stupid people who happen to think that addicts dying because of addiction is just sooooo fucking lulzy? Maybe next time some of you will stop and think before you start handing out judgments about which "stupid" people deserve to die in the streets.

Please now someone chime in and tell me Fifth! You're soooooooooooo intolerant of advocacy for FORCED EXTERMINATION! You're just so BIASED against people who want to KILL THE SICK FOR FUN! How can we have a LIVELY DISCUSSION FORUMING EXPERIENCE if we can't discuss WHICH GROUP OF PEOPLE WE WANT FUCKING KILLED? There's just no THRILL if we don't get to MOCK THE DEAD!

Because honestly if people think it is soooooooooooooooo fucking hard to talk about an issue without insults and slurs and advocating murder against people one doesn't like, then let me know so that I can finally be convinced this community just isn't cut out to talk about grown-up things like grown-ups do, and we can just close this chunk of the forum and you all can bitch about anime and webcomics to your heart's content.

...Hey you know what's a drug that's legal RIGHT NOW that kills people? Is CIGARETTES. Why don't all y'all who just HATE ADDICTS so hard, get a little group together and take a field trip to a cancer ward somewhere, and find some old man dying of lung cancer, and tell him how hard he DESERVES TO DIE, just like anyone who ever smoked a cigarette. Maybe you could wait for him to cough up BLOOD or CRY OUT IN PAIN, and then LAUGH at him for his suffering! I think that's something you guys might really enjoy.

[Herr Doktor]

I know I swore never to return to discussion, but i'm breaking that oath, and risking a ban.

Fifth, thing one: You forgot alcohol.

Fifth, thing two: You just massacred your own rules. Keeping this thread open with this level of anger on everyone's part is irresponsible, and bad for the forum as a whole. As a concerned member, i'd like to suggest that this thread be closed with the utmost haste, and that everyone involved goes and looks at the rules again. Even you, Fifth. You're a mod for a reason.

[Fifthfiend]

Fifth, thing two: You just massacred your own rules.

Let me look in the rules you're now so concerned about, for the line that says "The moderator is obligated to be NICE to people who want to MASS EXTERMINATE other people that they've decided are TEH STUPID".

...Nope! Not there! I am totally allowed to be as much of an jerk as I feel obligated to be to people who break this forum's rules. Gosh I guess if people don't like that kind of thing they might just have to NOT BE TOTAL ASSHOLES ALL OVER THIS FORUM AND ACTUALLY TRY AND FOLLOW THE RULES that I spend like ALL MY FUCKING TIME ON THIS FORUM TELLING PEOPLE TO FOLLOW and then I might actually feel obligated to be nice to them in return.

I mean it's almost like if you spout STUPIDLY OFFENSIVE CRAP, that is AGAINST THE RULES FOR BEING STUPIDLY OFFENSIVE CRAP, then you might at some point have to deal with a mod getting OFFENDED by your STUPID CRAP. HOLY SHIT WHO WOULD THUNK IT.

This thread is gonna stay open in case any actually thoughtful human being happens to come along and has anything actually thoughtful to contribute, and people who are shocked, shocked! at seeing rules enforced, I guess they're just gonna have to find a way to live with that.