Annoying Plot Devices - Page 2

The Wizard Who Did It · 12-01-2008, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaman FTW

*rewrites first chapter of book in progress*

Damn you Noncon!

Nah, that just means you have to pull it off well. See: Full Metal Alchemist (although that was one house and not a town but oh well)

One thing to remember about annoying cliches and plot devices is that they're only annoying when done poorly.

Also, MM FTW, it was also brought up in instruction booklets and crap for Halo 2. Really, the names that the covenant called themselves are only apparent if you ever care to look (AKA, you give a damn about the Halo mythos).

POS Industries · 12-01-2008, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune Zero

AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels team up to fight Samoa Joe.

HE HIT IT OUT OF NOWHERE, MIKE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wizard Who Did It

Nah, that just means you have to pull it off well. See: Full Metal Alchemist (although that was one house and not a town but oh well)

Well, I don't think it really counts if the protagonist burns down his own house or village or whatever. In FMA's case, it was a symbolic gesture of leaving an old life behind to begin a new one, whereas when Trogdor comes down and burninates shit it's just an overused trope.

synkr0nized · 12-01-2008, 07:18 PM

Yeah, the names are in official sources other than the books, though I cannot currently recall if any of the in-game text uses them (considering all Covenant speech is translated).

Also, MFTW, I was quoting you to contend with your comment about brains and to nitpick with the naming. My response with respect to not enjoying their "switch" was meant to coincide with yours, directed at folks like Fortune.

Ewoks were also an awful plot device.

The Wizard Who Did It · 12-01-2008, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Industries

Well, I don't think it really counts if the protagonist burns down his own house or village or whatever. In FMA's case, it was a symbolic gesture of leaving an old life behind to begin a new one, whereas when Trogdor comes down and burninates shit it's just an overused trope.

Eh, I'm still backing my main point around it, that if done well, even overused tropes are forgivable.

Magus · 12-01-2008, 08:04 PM

Anything resembling Deus Ex Machina should be avoided.

Unless it's really cool. I mean, if your hero is suddenly saved from certain death by a the sudden arrival of his allies' army of cloned hybrid mutant armored scorpions ridden by undead lichs of the nether realms, I'll give it a pass. But if it's just THE DRAGON RIDERS then it won't do.

That's just the fantasy genre. What genre is your story, anyway? A plot device which is used with annoying frequency in one genre may be rarely used in another and seem unique. Like zombies in a western (but that's my idea).

Pip Boy · 12-01-2008, 08:36 PM

I understand what you mean by the specific writing and pulling things together well that makes a book good more than the simple overall plot. For example, I am a huge fan of Eregon, yet looking at the plot it is so generic it would make me sick if I didn't know better. I mean, a guy who was just a totally ordinary dude guy becomes a dragon rider, finds out his daddy was a bad guy, finds out he has an evil twin brother, and them teams up with elves to fight the Empire and defeat ~~Vader~~ Galbatorix. Yet, the specific writing is what makes it all meaningful.

I have a new dillema. I actually do plan for much of a main character's home village to be destroyed by a tribe of lizard-monsters during their childhood. Unlike in most generic stories, this has absolutely nothing at all to do with the bad guys and/or their goals and motives. However, the reason the lizard people were able to attack is because many of the local guards had been pulled farther inland to deal with a group of anarchists. This causes the character to blame the guard for the attack on his village, and ultimately the death of his parents/destruction of his home. This will be the motivation for his betrayal later. He aids the bad guys in destroying the standing government so that he can help them create a new world in which a perfect, utopian society can be achieved. The problem with this means that the character is yet another story character that is orphaned most of their life because their parents died when they were young. The things I like about it are that the more permanent main character still has a living parent and that the parents of the orphaned character didn't die in some generic clash to protect him from the big boss man. On the other hand, his house still did get burned down by evil lizard people.

EDIT: So, Magus, what about zombies in a fantasy genre? Because the standard mob monsters under the control of the bad guy are similar to zombies in some ways, in that they are Soulless drones made from the once living. I mean, they're not technically zombies, but if you look at it the right way they could be based on zombies.

Mirai Gen · 12-02-2008, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megaman FTW

Dante Must Die, you would be well advised to find out how to use spoiler tags before my ninja assassins find out where you live.

Uh, okay, sorry. But this is like, the books that came out early 90s. The ones that came out recently I never even went into because they're a separate rant all on their own.

Regardless, sorry.

EDIT: "And he woke up, and realized it was all a dream."

TheSparrow · 12-02-2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortune Zero

I hate it when two enemy forces have to turn to fight a third, mostly one-shot but somehow eviller enemy force. I mean, done well it's all fine and dandy, but I'm outright effin' sick of it. The third superforce is usually something that came out of nowhere, sometimes literally unknown space JUST for the sake of making the two sides that have fought forever co-exist.

Spiderman and Venom team up to fight Carnage.
Heroes and villains team up to fight Skrull Invasion.
AJ Styles and Christopher Daniels team up to fight Samoa Joe.
GDI and Nod team up to fight the Scrin.
The Yuuzhan Vong war.
Halo 3.
Etc.

Again, sometimes done well. Usually just seems like they ran out of ideas, though, and decided to make something MORE EVIL THAN THE BAD GUYS, YEAH!

Batman R.I.P. made fun of this a bit even....when the Joker showed up while Batman was fighting in Arkham, the Joker mentioned that normally this is the part where the former enemies team up to take out the other enemy together....but he wasnt going to do that because batman shot him in the face (hush did, disguised as batman, but he probably didnt know that)

Pip Boy · 12-02-2008, 10:30 PM

Alright, now how about when authors take foreshadowing and turn it into fore-blunting-you-in-the-face-with-it-ing?

I mean, there are stories where signs that I guess are mean to be subtle are left to be picked up by watchful readers, but sometimes its just made freakishly obvious that you would have to be a blind, deaf, and a monkey not to see it. An example of this was Avatar. I didn't start watching Avatar until almost the whole series had been shown. I still managed to predict the twist that Zuko would team with Ang to defeat the Fire Lord after seeing only two episodes.

russianreversal · 12-02-2008, 10:48 PM

Everyone in a story does not need to have a terrible, awful background to be motivated. Revenge is not the only thing that fuels would be heroes (or villains, for that matter). Funny enough, the two writers that seem to struggle with this most are Disney and Michael Terracciano (Dominic Deegan), but at least I can forgive Disney.

Also, the MacGuffin (a goal desired by the heroes and villains, shown at the start but never seen again) is something that TV won't quit doing. It's really starting to annoy me. I mean, if you're going to show a trans-dimensional-hyper-space-beam in the first act, somebody better be getting time-warped by the third, amiright?

12-01-2008, 07:18 PM	#13
synkr0nized synk-ism Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: throughout the Wired Posts: 6,857	Yeah, the names are in official sources other than the books, though I cannot currently recall if any of the in-game text uses them (considering all Covenant speech is translated). Also, MFTW, I was quoting you to contend with your comment about brains and to nitpick with the naming. My response with respect to not enjoying their "switch" was meant to coincide with yours, directed at folks like Fortune. Ewoks were also an awful plot device. __________________ Find love.

12-01-2008, 08:04 PM	#15
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Anything resembling Deus Ex Machina should be avoided. Unless it's really cool. I mean, if your hero is suddenly saved from certain death by a the sudden arrival of his allies' army of cloned hybrid mutant armored scorpions ridden by undead lichs of the nether realms, I'll give it a pass. But if it's just THE DRAGON RIDERS then it won't do. That's just the fantasy genre. What genre is your story, anyway? A plot device which is used with annoying frequency in one genre may be rarely used in another and seem unique. Like zombies in a western (but that's my idea). __________________ The Valiant Review Last edited by Magus; 12-01-2008 at 08:07 PM.

12-01-2008, 08:36 PM	#16
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	I understand what you mean by the specific writing and pulling things together well that makes a book good more than the simple overall plot. For example, I am a huge fan of Eregon, yet looking at the plot it is so generic it would make me sick if I didn't know better. I mean, a guy who was just a totally ordinary dude guy becomes a dragon rider, finds out his daddy was a bad guy, finds out he has an evil twin brother, and them teams up with elves to fight the Empire and defeat ~~Vader~~ Galbatorix. Yet, the specific writing is what makes it all meaningful. I have a new dillema. I actually do plan for much of a main character's home village to be destroyed by a tribe of lizard-monsters during their childhood. Unlike in most generic stories, this has absolutely nothing at all to do with the bad guys and/or their goals and motives. However, the reason the lizard people were able to attack is because many of the local guards had been pulled farther inland to deal with a group of anarchists. This causes the character to blame the guard for the attack on his village, and ultimately the death of his parents/destruction of his home. This will be the motivation for his betrayal later. He aids the bad guys in destroying the standing government so that he can help them create a new world in which a perfect, utopian society can be achieved. The problem with this means that the character is yet another story character that is orphaned most of their life because their parents died when they were young. The things I like about it are that the more permanent main character still has a living parent and that the parents of the orphaned character didn't die in some generic clash to protect him from the big boss man. On the other hand, his house still did get burned down by evil lizard people. EDIT: So, Magus, what about zombies in a fantasy genre? Because the standard mob monsters under the control of the bad guy are similar to zombies in some ways, in that they are Soulless drones made from the once living. I mean, they're not technically zombies, but if you look at it the right way they could be based on zombies. Last edited by Pip Boy; 12-02-2008 at 08:24 PM.

12-02-2008, 10:48 PM	#20
russianreversal . Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,435	Everyone in a story does not need to have a terrible, awful background to be motivated. Revenge is not the only thing that fuels would be heroes (or villains, for that matter). Funny enough, the two writers that seem to struggle with this most are Disney and Michael Terracciano (Dominic Deegan), but at least I can forgive Disney. Also, the MacGuffin (a goal desired by the heroes and villains, shown at the start but never seen again) is something that TV won't quit doing. It's really starting to annoy me. I mean, if you're going to show a trans-dimensional-hyper-space-beam in the first act, somebody better be getting time-warped by the third, amiright? Last edited by russianreversal; 12-02-2008 at 10:51 PM.

12-02-2008, 10:30 PM	#19
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	Alright, now how about when authors take foreshadowing and turn it into fore-blunting-you-in-the-face-with-it-ing? I mean, there are stories where signs that I guess are mean to be subtle are left to be picked up by watchful readers, but sometimes its just made freakishly obvious that you would have to be a blind, deaf, and a monkey not to see it. An example of this was Avatar. I didn't start watching Avatar until almost the whole series had been shown. I still managed to predict the twist that Zuko would team with Ang to defeat the Fire Lord after seeing only two episodes.