Teacher asks student to surrender notes - Page 2

01d55 · 01-24-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

I don't understand the point of this. Shouldn't students helpfing other students to learn be encouraged?
Because often the best teachers are your peers who are at the same level as you and thus understand your problems.

See, you're under the mistaken impression that the point of schools is to learn stuff. That's not what schools are for at all!

School is a competition with other students, to prove who is the best learner. That's why it's so important to stop this kind of cheating.

Fifthfiend · 01-24-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

If we were worried about systems that worked instead of following that process, we wouldn't have the Electoral College.

I mean, heck, why waste money on Kinko's? Just re-copy your notes in another notebook, or even the same notebook and tear them out, if you're on a budget. You'll spend, what, 1/10,000 of a cent in pencil lead or pen ink per subject?

I'd say that sounds pretty time intensive but IIRC most studious kids will routinely take their classnotes and either rewrite them or type them up in order to clean them up for reference / as an additional review exercise so yeah you might as well hand the teacher your trash notes and then sell the fuck out of the good stuff to next year's class, considering your teacher is basically confirming that they'll be 100% valid for the class.

I dunno, this sounds like the sort of thing a teacher does when she wants to come up with some stupidassed way to twist kids' arms into showing up for her lectures instead of just reading the book, in some way that isn't like, actually putting together an interesting and informative lecture that substantially adds to the value for the book.

Masked Jedi · 01-24-2009, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellsouth Minion

regardless of just how stupid this is (because it just wont prevent a thing... and there is no real point to it) a teache could never go into a students backpack to take his notes and destroy it. This is the point that shows me that she lost all reason on this subject...

This is actually a big issue, but Bellsouth's right. Teachers can legally go into your locker, but they cannot search your backpack or any other bag's you have. They also can't read your notebooks without your consent.

CMKMStephens · 01-26-2009, 05:27 AM

Sounds like you have a bad case of bureaucracy there. Haven't heard of that kind of thing happening in Universities here, but we have our own problems =/

TheSparrow · 01-26-2009, 05:54 AM

Having two teachers as Parents, I asked them about this. The way the IP laws work, what a teacher gives you is their Intellectual Property, the lectures, the quizzes, the tests, the worksheets...even if the worksheet is all from source material, the way that it is organized by the teacher makes it IP. And the teacher has every legal right to take back every hand out, quiz, test, etc, that she gave out.

However, As notes tend to be a personal take on the material, and are never verbatim (i.e. people tend to short hand things, skip things that they know or feel arent important, etc) the act of doing that is certainly arguable that it makes those notes YOUR Intellectual Property, and you would at least have a very good legal argument.

And as for the backpack thing. Whoever told you administration cant search backpacks is wrong. Courts have given teachers/admin the right to search lockers, backpacks, vehicles etc. WITHIN reason. So if student A says student B has a gun or a crack pipe in his backpack, that gives admin the right to search student B's backpack. Unfortunately the courts have long held Constitutional protections don't apply to public schools. :| The fact that you had something illegal in your backpack (teacher's Intellectual Property) would most likely hold up in court giving her the right to go into your backpack and take it.

**McTahr** · 01-26-2009, 07:07 AM

As if the past few threads in here regarding schools haven't taught us enough about constitutional rights in schools as is...

Also, the way students are going these days, is the teacher going to start opening laptops and deleting files and janking flash drives? I mean you don't even need to consider the cost of paper or ink in that route if you happened to get a hand-me-down or grant laptop.

Viridis · 02-01-2009, 11:21 AM

What if it's the school's laptop? Some schools loan them out, and there's a scholarship here with 'use of a laptop' in the awards. Could they search it then?

Just a passing thought.

TheSparrow · 02-01-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viridis

What if it's the school's laptop? Some schools loan them out, and there's a scholarship here with 'use of a laptop' in the awards. Could they search it then?

Just a passing thought.

Most likely. Even adults are said to not have an expectation of privacy on public or other people's property.

Still in the case of the notes, the notes are still probably your IP, just like the worksheets the teacher gives you her are IP. Doesn't really matter who is in physical possession of them.

Lord Setheris · 02-01-2009, 01:47 PM

It's very simple. You tell her that she can keep the original notes, but you WILL be copying them as a study aid for the future, and she cannot stop you from doing that. At most what she can do is ask you to surrender the copies as well. Too bad you "misplaced" them.

Preturbed · 02-01-2009, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Setheris

At most what she can do is ask you to surrender the copies as well. Too bad you "misplaced" them.

Or you could just "misplace" the originals.

01-26-2009, 05:54 AM	#15
TheSparrow Waylaid by Jackassery. Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 382	Having two teachers as Parents, I asked them about this. The way the IP laws work, what a teacher gives you is their Intellectual Property, the lectures, the quizzes, the tests, the worksheets...even if the worksheet is all from source material, the way that it is organized by the teacher makes it IP. And the teacher has every legal right to take back every hand out, quiz, test, etc, that she gave out. However, As notes tend to be a personal take on the material, and are never verbatim (i.e. people tend to short hand things, skip things that they know or feel arent important, etc) the act of doing that is certainly arguable that it makes those notes YOUR Intellectual Property, and you would at least have a very good legal argument. And as for the backpack thing. Whoever told you administration cant search backpacks is wrong. Courts have given teachers/admin the right to search lockers, backpacks, vehicles etc. WITHIN reason. So if student A says student B has a gun or a crack pipe in his backpack, that gives admin the right to search student B's backpack. Unfortunately the courts have long held Constitutional protections don't apply to public schools. :\| The fact that you had something illegal in your backpack (teacher's Intellectual Property) would most likely hold up in court giving her the right to go into your backpack and take it. __________________ :rmage: "Clearly I lack arrogance as that would be a flaw"

01-26-2009, 07:07 AM	#16
McTahr For the right price... Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,268	As if the past few threads in here regarding schools haven't taught us enough about constitutional rights in schools as is... Also, the way students are going these days, is the teacher going to start opening laptops and deleting files and janking flash drives? I mean you don't even need to consider the cost of paper or ink in that route if you happened to get a hand-me-down or grant laptop. __________________ Gone.

02-01-2009, 01:47 PM	#19
Lord Setheris A Guardian Angel Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,311	It's very simple. You tell her that she can keep the original notes, but you WILL be copying them as a study aid for the future, and she cannot stop you from doing that. At most what she can do is ask you to surrender the copies as well. Too bad you "misplaced" them. __________________ As a 21 year old virgin, I'm strongly opposed to anything that reminds me that people are having sex in high school.

01-26-2009, 05:27 AM	#14
CMKMStephens Follower of RM Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: New Zealand Posts: 17	Sounds like you have a bad case of bureaucracy there. Haven't heard of that kind of thing happening in Universities here, but we have our own problems =/

02-01-2009, 11:21 AM	#17
Viridis oh, what fun we will have! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 1,773	What if it's the school's laptop? Some schools loan them out, and there's a scholarship here with 'use of a laptop' in the awards. Could they search it then? Just a passing thought.