If Black Mage had passed his Ordeal, would he have gotten Ultima?

[Sean Renaud]

The thing is that Ninja just adds to the Theif Skill set the ability to cast black magic. He may well be a mage but like a White Mage who picked up only Knight's special abilities he might not notice. I doubt thats the case particularly as Blue Mages weren't in FF until, what? Five? The first I can recall is Strago in 6 but I also admit to being an American and I played them out of order and 3 is still basically the newest one to me.

BM did clearly show the most understanding of the ordeals. RM passed by accident. Coincidently Fighter basically passed in the same way that BM did. They stuck to their strengths BM in being underhanded and evil and Fighter with Swords=problem solved. But they both were well in charachter. RM was really the only one who broke charachter to pass.

[Awake]

Originally Posted by Sean Renaud

RM was really the only one who broke charachter to pass.

And then quickly made up for it five seconds later.

[waw]

Blue Mages were a class you could use in FF5. The Esper system in FF3 has been compared to Blue magic, but that's it.

THis reminds me... thief stole his class change, didn't he? So he should be losing his ninjaness at somepoint we'd imagine?

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by TheSparrow

And also, he should be a ninja, since he passed Thief's ordeal too. :p

Actually, Thief stole his class change from his future self. He didn't get it by overcoming his trials.

Originally Posted by waw

Blue Mages were a class you could use in FF5. The Esper system in FF3 has been compared to Blue magic, but that's it.

I'm darn tootin' it was Strago who was the "Blue Mage" in FF6 with his Lore ability and ok fighting prowess (maces and such as well as 'mage' weaponry). One could make a (weaker, but still valid) case for Gau, but the Esper system is more like the future-coming materia or even guardian force systems in subsequent games (regardless of my personal feelings on FF7 or FF8).

The thing about the "upgrades" are that everyone has gotten use out of them to a certain extent, even Black Mage (granted it was only once, but still). Comparitively, however, Black Mage's blue magic is the worst, while Fighter's is a close second (he survived everything easily up until that time, thus not needing guard; he's using it on the worst creature imaginable because that creature wants to kill him against the ones who actually like; and the one time he really needs it, he lets his guard down).

Since they have attained the new abilities, I haven't actually seen Thief steal anything or Red Mage cast any spells fighting or non-mimicry, that I can recall (feel free to prove me wrong, please). So it's just possible that everyone lost something when they underwent their class change as well (opposing possibility: their prior abilities just don't matter very much anymore). Fighter might have been all-but-invincible from before, but perhaps now he needs swords. I think BM can still use Hadoken (I don't remember a specific instance, but I feel like I've seen it since) and certainly they have all (save BM) used their abilities to (at least moderately) good effect once or twice (and even BM has shown remarkable improvement with his daggers, ala Blue Mage's slightly better attacking abilities), but I don't recall actually seeing their previous class' traits manifested... or if they were, only very subtly.

So at any rate, I'm not certain what my point was, but I guess this'll have to do: kids, stay in school, don't do drugs, and love your mommy (unless she's evil and psychopathic, in which case, love her, but turn her in for her own good as well as yours). Also, Brian is a jerk for not providing my FREE entertainment ontime. Gosh. And never see The Good Son. Seriously. That movie sucks. And is awful. As an admitted plus, though, you get to see Macaulay Culkin die.

Edit: Aye! Thanks for the reminders of stuff! And I totally forgot about the ICE-on-dragons-thing. Also, RM totally disproved this with TODAY'S comic by casting EXIT. Ironic timing, no? ... no? Oh. I'll... just sit in the "corner of being corrected" now. My bad...

[waw]

um... yes, they do have their old abilities. Red Mage cast life on himself, cure on WM, and froze the team. Life was an accident, he didn't know he couldn't.

I believe Thief can still steal, BM was casting fire on bats, he still has his powers

[Dracorion]

Why would Red Mage use a spell, therefore becoming less versatile, when he can Mime one of Black Mage's?

[waw]

At the time of freezing everyone, he hadn't seen anyone cast that spell (a dragon was freezing them, but he cast Ice if i recall, something different)...

And RM has been out of that phase for a long while now

[Katuko]

It doesn't really matter if they passed their ordeals the "right way" or not.
Fighter was supposed to quit being lazy. He killed the Sloth monster because his brain told him it would be faster. So he failed.
Black Mage conquered his own evil, sure, but he had set it all up so that he could absorb it again, including some extra from his doppelganger, it seems. He failed, as he was no less evil than before.
Red Mage admitted defeat to Pride, but then he started gloating over his victory. So he failed as well.
Finally, Thief never got to face his ordeal, so he failed as well.

What's important, though, is that after the monsters were vanquished, the final ordeal, the Zombie Dragon, believed they had passed and came forth to fight them. After kind of killing it, they got the rat tail they came for. And the rat tail is all that Bahamut asked for, so he gave them their class changes without knowing they didn't learn anything from the trip.

Red Mage and Fighter quickly got their class change, while Thief got impatient and stole his "from the future". Doesn't mean that he will lose it later, however, as this means he's essentially got two class changes. The one that was never unlocked, and the one that he stole from himself in the future.
Black Mage didn't get his class change until "Darko" unbound the nexus within him. He then got Blue Magic and a higher potential for magic. Of course, BM being BM, his new ability sucked.

[waw]

I don'tthink Thief got two class changes....

the thing about stealing it from himself in the future may have been a lie so he doesn't seem to believe in Bahamut and all that...

and Darko helped out BM with the new clothes so your explanation is flawed a bit.

BM should technicaly have two new classes if what you say is true

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by waw

I don'tthink Thief got two class changes....

the thing about stealing it from himself in the future may have been a lie so he doesn't seem to believe in Bahamut and all that...

and Darko helped out BM with the new clothes so your explanation is flawed a bit.

BM should technicaly have two new classes if what you say is true

I don't know. I'd tend to agree in thinking it was Bahamut's "blessing" that allowed the class-change in the first place. But that's just me. I mean, hey, we all know I've never been wrong on anything ever, especially not in this very thread amirite? ... right? ... ... ah.