Welp, guess I'm not a Metroid fan. (Metroid: Other M related)

[BitVyper]

The gameplay is different in every game!

Wait.... what? We're talking about Final Fantasy here, right? Lining up on the opposite side of the screen from the enemy and taking turns since nineteen eighty something... that's the game we're talking about, right? I mean, to be fair, I haven't played twelve or thirteen (is there a thirteen?), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably still pretty much the same thing.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Wait.... what? We're talking about Final Fantasy here, right? Lining up on the opposite side of the screen from the enemy and taking turns since nineteen eighty something... that's the game we're talking about, right? I mean, to be fair, I haven't played twelve or thirteen (is there a thirteen?), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably still pretty much the same thing.

That's pretty well boiling it down to its simplest base and ignoring all the other stuff they do with them. Every last one of them has brought something totally new to the table systems-wise. From introducing a story in FF2 and class freedom in FF3, to the first Limit Breaks in FF6 (Desperation Attacks are apparently counted), Materia in FF7, Junction in FF8, and Gambits in FF12, there has always been something new on the table and it's always had a large effect. The games all play very differently.

Also, they haven't been stand-in-line fests since after FFX. X-2 had a more dynamic battle system, XI and XII were both MMOs, XIII has everything moving around the field, and XIV is yet another MMO. Then we have VersusXIII and AgitoXIII coming out which will also not be stand-in-line.

[greed]

Personally I take Bit and Kyanbu's view. I'm treating Metroid like I treat Sonic, unless it improves I'm just gonna pretend the series ended at Prime 3.

Originally Posted by BitVyper

Wait.... what? We're talking about Final Fantasy here, right? Lining up on the opposite side of the screen from the enemy and taking turns since nineteen eighty something... that's the game we're talking about, right? I mean, to be fair, I haven't played twelve or thirteen (is there a thirteen?), but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's probably still pretty much the same thing.

Not really, 12 was an awesome thing that sort of played like an offline MMO. 13 had a different combat system from all the others, but was a bad change. It also had teribble characters, writing and boring music. It was admittedly gorgeous however. Which is what I think Kyanbu was referring to. I know FF13 killed any interest I had in future FF titles.

Edit: Blues don't lie, 13 has things standing around in the field, but you don't fight them in the field Chronotrigger or FF12 style, you just go into encounter screens like in the old random encounters. It's the same system Tales, Star Ocean and Persona uses. Just with much shittier combat once you enter the actual battle.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by greed

Not really, 12 was an awesome thing that sort of played like an offline MMO. 13 had a different combat system from all the others, but was a bad change. It also had teribble characters, writing and boring music. It was admittedly gorgeous however. Which is what I think Kyanbu was referring to. I know FF13 killed any interest I had in future FF titles.

Edit: Blues don't lie, 13 has things standing around in the field, but you don't fight them in the field Chronotrigger or FF12 style, you just go into encounter screens like in the old random encounters. It's the same system Tales, Star Ocean and Persona uses. Just with much shittier combat once you enter the actual battle.

Ah, but they're not standing in line. :P


I'm going to say I own the game and that Paradigm Shift is actually not all that bad a system. The characters are almost all unlikable, and the writing is admittedly not all that great, but combat itself flows well and is fast-paced to boot. No, you don't control where your characters move, but they do move around, as do enemies, forcing you to try to time your attacks. It's a pretty involved system if you actually get around to working it.

I mean, shit, if we're being so shallow that we're judging a series based on nothing but whether you battle in an arena or not, I'll say that I've found most non-arena-battle games to have been utter shit, so in that sense FF13 has something going in its favor.

Also, Chrono Trigger for all intents and purposes turns the field screens INTO arenas. There is jack for free flow in that. You just had a system that was bad enough to still be using tiles, but good enough that you could make a fluid transition into an arena using the same scenery.


Edit: I could go on about all the flaws in FF12's system, like how range doesn't matter to enemies and they're just good about hiding it, or how Godawful slow it is, or how you have to unlock AI bits to help make your team more effective, or, well, I guess I just did. FF12 is far from perfect and the only good thing I found in the entire game that I managed to force myself through was how the weaponry was balanced.

Edit^2: Now I have to go cool off, because even talking about that game has literally started up my adrenaline.

[Archbio]

It was made by the Ninja Gaiden guy. I wouldn't find it particularly indicative of some secret nefarious sexist nature of Metroid series overall...I understand it had the same writer (or is he merely a producer-type?) but why hadn't his "true colors" shown through until he was stuck with Iga? Was it just because of the emphasis on dialogue in this one?

I think that one quote that the article cites from Sakamoto illuminates the question, somewhat:

Originally Posted by Sakamoto

Depicting the story of Samus Aran in this game was one of the most important game design concepts from the very beginning because before Other M I did not think about what kind of person Samus Aran was and how she thinks and her personality….Plus because of the existence of the Metroid Prime series many people might have different ideas about what kind of person Samus Aran was….So with Other M I really wanted to determine and express what kind of human Samus Aran is so that we can really tell what kind of natural step she should be taking in the future.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

Abuh? Lost respect gameplay-wise how? The gameplay is different in every game! You don't like one, wait for the next one! If you're waiting for a repeat, you're not a fan of the series, just one of a particular game. I mean I know there are a lot of tards out there who think FF7 "is" Final Fantasy, but they're just tards. It's not even the best of the series by a long shot.

There where many who gave up on/lost respect for the series around the time X and X-2 came around. They had varying reasons, for some the gameplay just didn't change enough between titles. For others it was the story, character designs, and the characters them selves.

[Regulus Tera]

People who hit this instead of Sin and Punishnent 2 are what's wrong with Nintendo fans.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Kyanbu The Legend

There where many who gave up on/lost respect for the series around the time X and X-2 came around. They had varying reasons, for some the gameplay just didn't change enough between titles. For others it was the story, character designs, and the characters them selves.

I can totally get not liking X-2 for various reasons. As much as I like it, it drives me nuts in some areas. X was fantastic, though, and I'd count it as one of the best of the series, voice acting aside (and even that wasn't the cast's fault since they were forced into a marathon run with no references).

Gameplay-wise, X introduced probably the least to the series, but what little it did was an improvement, ranging from switching out party members in battle to providing numerous means of getting an Overdrive. Heck, even the Sphere Grid isn't that bad. It's not like it's hard to grind.



Also, X-2 didn't come out at the same time as X so much as XI, so I can totally see the disappointment there.





Edit: To pull this back around to the topic, if Final Fantasy can get ravenous fans for every one of its titles despite how divisive they've all been since VII, and even VII is divisive now that you've got a good backlash going against the fanboys, Metroid probably can survive a bit longer.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by bluestarultor

I can totally get not liking X-2 for various reasons. As much as I like it, it drives me nuts in some areas. X was fantastic, though, and I'd count it as one of the best of the series, voice acting aside (and even that wasn't the cast's fault since they were forced into a marathon run with no references).

Gameplay-wise, X introduced probably the least to the series, but what little it did was an improvement, ranging from switching out party members in battle to providing numerous means of getting an Overdrive. Heck, even the Sphere Grid isn't that bad. It's not like it's hard to grind.



Also, X-2 didn't come out at the same time as X so much as XI, so I can totally see the disappointment there.

I think it was the awful awful story plodded out over about 30 hours of unskippable cutscenes "revealing" plot elements that you worked out about 20 hours ago and all this done through massive screeds of hammy exposition. No Final fantasy has an amazing story but X is where it started to get abusive with the cutscenes to the extent that I had to have a book next to me when playing to start reading when the cutscenes started.

As for Metroid there should be more heroes like Samus who are just ditherers and weak-willed and terrible rolemodels. It will make up for the millions of other, always correct, force solves everything, grunt marines running around.

[bluestarultor]

Originally Posted by Smarty McBarrelpants

I think it was the awful awful story plodded out over about 30 hours of unskippable cutscenes "revealing" plot elements that you worked out about 20 hours ago and all this done through massive screeds of hammy exposition. No Final fantasy has an amazing story but X is where it started to get abusive with the cutscenes to the extent that I had to have a book next to me when playing to start reading when the cutscenes started.

As for Metroid there should be more heroes like Samus who are just ditherers and weak-willed and terrible rolemodels. It will make up for the millions of other, always correct, force solves everything, grunt marines running around.

I think rather than giving people a different brand of terrible role model, we might take it a step further and actually give them, you know, good ones. Samus could totally be a vehicle for strong, capable women, and I think most people would actually prefer that.

She doesn't have to be a bitch. She doesn't have to be violent. She doesn't even have to be utilitarian. A well-handled Samus would be a smart, capable lady who's capable of doing a job dominated by men in other games, doesn't break down every five seconds or get shuffled into an arbitrary motherhood role, and keeps it clean with her language and habits.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd find that more sexy than all the clingy wusses or slutty bitches in the world.