Is Nickleback that bad? The nature of selling out

[Flarecobra]

What's wrong with being a redneck?

[CABAL49]

Is there anything right about being a drunken degenerate?

[Flarecobra]

Not all rednecks are drunken degenerates.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Literally everything I associate with the term redneck is negative- what positive connotations does it have

[Flarecobra]

I consider myself a bit of one.

[tacticslion]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

I like Nickelback.

Therefore it's awful.

I have to say Nik, that if you like something, I, at least, am more likely to give it a second chance, and presume it may not be awful. Whether or not I like said thing has no bearing on whether or not said thing is objectively awful. (Unless I'm engaging in conversation with certain people or on certain topics on this forum.)

(P.S. Sorry for ruining the joke, I just felt I needed to mention that you're pretty cool, and I respect you.)

Similar to what Shyria noted, I'll just elaborate by saying this: "Selling Out" in music terms is what happens when a band makes a big deal about being one thing, but ultimately literally accepts money to betray said ideals. I'm not saying that a band should be ideological champions, or anything, but an example would be that if a band constantly talks about bucking the system, rebelling against the man, and being the puppet of no one, but then signs up with a big record company and ceases to have any personal creative input. There is nothing wrong with them getting a paycheck, but the impression and image they're attempting to cultivate is suddenly very undermined by the fact that they literally have masters - the big record company that pays them and controls what they put out - and are subject to someone else's whims. In other words, as Shyria said more succinctly, hypocrisy.

That said, taking your definition of selling out - accepting a (hopefully) regular paycheck from said company in order to create stuff for them - isn't automatically a Bad Thing. It is simply the thing they do to survive. Food and shelter is a very necessary thing, after all, and there's nothing wrong with also desiring creature comforts (because, you know, such things are pleasant).

It's when a band (or any artist, or even anyone at all, really) attempt to cultivate an image, message, ideology, or other strong presence yet will literally "sell out" the thing that they've represented or that represents them in order to acquire money that there starts to be an unpleasant dissonance or disconnect between what they say or appear and what they do in reality.

Again, I'm not accusing record companies, big or small, of being evil monomaniacal organizations bent on world conquest, but large amounts of money causing someone to abandon what they once seemed to hold dear (and thus attracted many of their "current" fans) naturally leaves a sour taste in the mouth of many of those who enjoyed them prior to the "Sell Out" (whether or not said Sell Out is justified). Selling Out can even be a good thing: if the artists in question were all for a bad thing, but were talented, and then "Sold Out" and thus channeled into a non-bad thing, that's a net gain for the world. It would still understandably feel like a betrayal to their fans who loved the idea of the bad thing they once seemingly championed, but over all it would be a good change or "Sell Out".

That... doesn't seem to be the most common thing that happens, though.

I do think that too many people are too quick to point a finger at something and decry as "Sell Out" what is merely "Make money to survive and continue the lifestyle to which we're accustomed... possibly to do something fun and/or even different for us at the same time." which are quite different.

EDIT:
Guys, get off the "Red Necks". It's not on-topic, and the term has lost any real semblance of meaning across cultural boundaries: some associate it with themselves in a positive light, others mean it as a slur against a people group that they don't know or understand, but find it convenient to attach a label upon so that they can hate without just cause. Others have poor experiences with said people group, and thus attach a readily-available slur-label and presume all who are identified (self or otherwise) as such fall into the same category as they've seen or experienced. It's roughly akin to saying "Everyone from Britain is stupid." or "All New Yorkers are stuck-up arrogant jerks who hate humanity." or "Man, I hate those dumb, obviously-inbred, entirely-evil US Citizens who live in the Southern States (exempting certain parts of Florida or some larger cities) descended from mostly European ancestry." ... in other words, fallacious reasoning.

Is it a joke? Sure. But to seriously presume that an entire people-group falls into a neatly organized category like that isn't really well done. It's a trope and a stereotype for a reason, yes. But all tropes and stereotypes exist for a reason, and that's reason is rarely "Because everyone fits into the negative mental image I have for them." In other words, its a caricature: a false image conjured for the purpose of a humorous broad-spectrum characterization. The problem is, like all caricatures, it's taken on a life of its own and people presume its real.

These boards tend to be very pro-tolerance in many cases, but in specific, strange instances very intolerant.

Anyway, I'll likely get in trouble for backseat modding. Sorry mods. I'll likely disappear from the boards again for a while, soon, so... eh.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

That doesn't answer the question.

[Bells]

So... every single rapper in the last 20 years is a sell out?

Also i don't see it as much as just focused on "for survival" cause quite frankly any band that gets a Motorola or Eletronic Arts deal is hardly starving. But, like in the Linkin Park thing... if the band actually likes that stuff, why not merge business and pleasure y'know?

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Professor Smarmiarty

Literally everything I associate with the term redneck is negative- what positive connotations does it have

Redneck is a slur/Stereotype. Some people are attempting to "reclaim" the term.
The idea being a economically disadvantaged group from a certain environment embracing the culture that has developed around their lifestyle. Associating themselves with a term used to describe them by outsiders in an act of defiance and solidarity.

Previous examples of such behavior (I.e. "Nigger/Nigga" "queer" "gay") aren't quite the same as they aren't "reclaiming" slurs so much as acknowledging the social dynamics of improper nouns that have fallen out of fashion within the larger culture(despite/because the social dynamics of such still existing). It's close, though.

Originally Posted by Professor Smarmiarty

Literally everything I associate with the term redneck is negative- what positive connotations does it have

Let's break down the word...

RE: Selling Out: The Black Eyed Peas. Bought a Pretty White Girl to sing pop, Got rid of their(more pretty) brown Soul singer Girl and stopped being a hip-hop group to get rich. That is what selling out looks like.

[CABAL49]

Originally Posted by Flarecobra

I consider myself a bit of one.

You live in Florida. You cannot be one. Florida is not considered to be culturally part of the "South." Florida is culturally different from Virginia or Georgia. But there is a difference between being a Southerner and being a redneck. I am a Southerner. Reclaiming redneck is like reclaiming douchebag. But I was asked my impression of Nickleback and I gave it. I don't want to hurt Bell's feelings by derailing the thread further.