"Baby Raped To Death" or "What The Fucking Shit?"

[RobinStarwing]

Originally Posted by Shyria Dracnoir

There are times when I wish the US prison system was more focused on rehabilitation than punishment.

And then there's this.

So, safe to say we all agree that this thing which does not deserve even the ability to have a name must be killed brutally and in the most violent possible method?

(I know the last part may seem extreme but this is one of those times I buy into the Threefold and Sevenfold Laws of Karma. One is Wiccan and the other is Christian.)

[Amake]

I've been thinking about a case last century when four teenagers set a fire in a discotheque and killed 64 other teenagers. They were too morally underdeveloped to understand why setting fire to a building is bad, and too ignorant to realize that a burning building might hurt people who are in it. Like our Mr Smith apparently didn't get that raping babies is bad or that they could die from it.

Should any of these killers die for their mistakes? I don't think so. I think they need to be educated. We might not be able to educate Mr Smith enough to trust him not to rape any more babies, and so we might not have any way to safely deal with him, and I guess that's what prisons are supposed to be for. But that's a problem with our society, not with him, and if we're going to kill anyone over it we might as well kill everyone, because that's what we deserve if we can't think of any better way to deal with our problems.

[Red Mage Black]

Originally Posted by Amake

I've been thinking about a case last century when four teenagers set a fire in a discotheque and killed 64 other teenagers. They were too morally underdeveloped to understand why setting fire to a building is bad, and too ignorant to realize that a burning building might hurt people who are in it. Like our Mr Smith apparently didn't get that raping babies is bad or that they could die from it.

Should any of these killers die for their mistakes? I don't think so. I think they need to be educated. We might not be able to educate Mr Smith enough to trust him not to rape any more babies, and so we might not have any way to safely deal with him, and I guess that's what prisons are supposed to be for. But that's a problem with our society, not with him, and if we're going to kill anyone over it we might as well kill everyone, because that's what we deserve if we can't think of any better way to deal with our problems.

Yeah, but here's the problem. Your examples don't match up whatsoever. Smith was an adult man, who knew the effects of alcohol, was an alcoholic and his inebriated state doesn't excuse what he did. Similar to a drunk driver hitting a pedestrian. They aren't excused because all their mental faculties weren't in full control.

He knew enough what he was doing. Feeling bad now doesn't absolve him of guilt. I know I didn't say 'kill him immediately', what I basically said was 'throw him to the wolves' by putting him in the general population.

Remember, some people are just broken and keeping them around and attempting to reprogram them isn't going to do anything but waste time and money. I truly believe some people can be saved, but once you've stepped over the threshold of taking another life, it's all over. There is nothing you can do past that point that would justify releasing them back into society nor a way to keep them around without others trying to seek 'due justice' on said person.

What I'm trying to say is, there is no reason for Smith to go on past this point. You could always say, "He'll live with that guilt for the rest of his life," but yeah, so what? As I reiterate, feeling bad does not excuse the fact you did it in the first place. Nor does it mean he didn't know what he was doing. He dug his own grave by drinking and raping a 6-month old girl, now he can lay in it as far as I'm concerned. I can see no reason to give him mercy.

[Amake]

The reason we should not kill him is because he's a human being. Popular opinion to the contrary.

I'm not saying anything about keeping him alive to make sure he suffers. I'm in favor of not killing him because I think it is beneath us, as adult humans who know what we're doing, to kill anyone, no matter how convenient it would be.

[RobinStarwing]

Originally Posted by Amake

The reason we should not kill him is because he's a human being. Popular opinion to the contrary.

I'm not saying anything about keeping him alive to make sure he suffers. I'm in favor of not killing him because I think it is beneath us, as adult humans who know what we're doing, to kill anyone, no matter how convenient it would be.

Did you miss the part where it raped a six-month old baby girl to death to get himself off? At that point, killing it immediately would be giving him mercy for his crime. It is beyond salvation. Beyond any hope of being a functional part of society in my opinion.

In other words, it stopped being a Human Being that minute it did that horrid act to defenseless infant human being.

EDIT: I know this will not be a popular opinion with some of you but despite how I speak sometimes...I hold the life of a child at a very high value. This thing that did this act stopped having any right to be refered to as a human being.

[Amake]

Both you and Steven Smith are human beings to me, Robin. But maybe you can change my opinion if you keep talking.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Comparing a baby raping pile of disgusting shit to a group of arsonists is a pretty weak fucking argument. The leagues in difference is so great I can't even comprehend how you use that as an argument with a straight face.

But since we're at it let's try this thought exercise on for size, shall we? What happened in old yeller when the dog gets rabies? It is put down for the safety and benefit of the farm's inhabitants. Even though Yeller was a beloved member of the family and harmed noone up to that point it was still the best option.

When a person enacts infanticide for the sake of personal instant gratification, in this case a fully grown adult who knows full well what the ramifications of their actions are, is best put down. Now in this case, the shitbag is a shitbag. The provided court evidence dictated the attack lasted up to about 30 minutes. Comprised of beating, choking, and injuries pretty much all around consistent with homicide. In addition, he made his actions known to his girlfriend when he placed the deceased infant next to the girlfriend in bed. He knew what he was doing and hid behind the sickening defense of "i was drunk."

So while you're entitled to believe that, Amake, it doesn't change the fact that this..thing deserves even less sympathy than a fictional rabies ridden dog.

[Amake]

No, let's skip the metaphors.

When you decide that person A is subhuman you give up the right to not have person B decide you are subhuman and thus you actively contribute to the normalization of violence and prejudice that keeps the world from getting better.

People have known this since about World War 2. It's not exactly some radical hippie logic. It's the second step of earning the basic human respect that I'm generously giving you for no fucking reason beyond my belief in humanity.

We don't kill each other. We don't justify killing each other by pretending we're different from those other people. If you can't understand that much, it's you who have no place on this planet. Do you think I should believe in your ability to learn to respect your fellow humans, or should I give up on you just as you have given up on Smith?

[Magus]

I don't even say put him in general population with the expectation he'll be killed. That's no way to run a prison. They have for years misused isolation cells, but this guy is perfect for one. He pretty clearly can't be rehabilitated (though they can try, not sure what standard a person could set for somebody so clearly evil), and it'd be for his own protection besides.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

Basic human respect has no place for baby raping murderers. Simple as that. Furthermore, if that mindset is wrong I'll head to mars as soon as I get the money and the means is possible, even if it is one-way, because fuck this planet.