Canadian Elections 2004

[Devon Lake]

Improving healthcare? That's strange, all I hear in America is how great healthcare is in Canada. Is it not as perfect as a lot of Americans think?

BTW, I know an embarassingly small amount about Canada. I live pretty far from the border. Sorry if this seems a stupid question to the natives.

Ya, it's definately not perfect, but then, name one thing that can't be improved upon? The problem is that since all the funding cuts in the 90's the quality of Canada's healthcare has deteriorated (Unexpectedly.) It's free and it provides equal access to all, but thing's are far from ideal these days. Particularly here in Ontario where the provincial government also underfunded medicare.

Access to doctors has fallen significantly. I even know some folks who just don't have a family doctor. Last time I was in the hospital, I had to wait for hours to see the doctor. Ditto with my sister when she get whacked in the head from a hockey game. Most annoying to me is the waiting lists to see specialists. It took me months to start seeing my psychologist and even longer to finally see the fertility specialist who froze my sperm (Which the state didn't cover) and proscribe my hormones (We still have to pay for drugs to.) I can't imagine how pissed the folks on a waiting list for surgeries and other proceedures must be.

Oh well, those are all just inconveiniances really. It's no like there's anyone who can't get treated or anything. I'd rather put up with that than the shame of being priveliged with better healthcare than everyone else just for having a rich daddy. The idea that we'd drag the class system into such basic human rights as life and security of person sickens me. What problems socialised medicine experiences here would be rendered nill if the government only funded it properly (Thus the Liberal platform.) and got back to subsidizing post secondary education so that we'd have people qualified to become doctors in the first place.

[KhanFusion]

And then raise the crap out of taxes, and cut funding for other crap to pay for it all, right?

[slightly aboveaverage man]

Well, most people blame the Liberals for the loss of funding with Healthcare. So many cuts were forced upon social programs because of Brian Mulroney's Progressive Conservative government in the 80's. He grew the National Debt to 550 Billion dollars, and created a deficit of over 75 billion dollars per year! Jean Chretien's Liberals were forced to cut spending in order to prevent the country from collapsing into bankrupsy.
In addition, while the Conservatives grew the debt by 300 billion dollars, the Liberals have shrunk the debt by $50 billion in just 5 years.

Now that we are in the Surplus stages, The Liberals are now rebuilding the Healthcare system they damaged, except this time, not on borrowed money. The Liberals are now the status quo party, but if you look at things logically, they created the Status Quo. Paul Martin wishes to improve upon it.

I am able to vote for the first time this time around, and I am guaranteed to vote for the Liberals this year. Yes they have had a few scandals, but compared to what they have done for the country in the past few years, they are pretty minor. I am a Hardcore Liberal, but that does not mean that completely support what they have done. Personally I love the party, but I am uneasy about Paul Martin. I did not like how he slimily cut Jean Chretien's feet out from under him in order to take over. I question his morals, but I recognize that he gets results.

The Conservative Party is just the Reform Party: Version 3.0. If Peter MacKay had run and won the leadership, they may have posed a real alternative, but with Stephen Harper at the helm, they are too right-winged.

The NDP promises the world, but they have no way to pay for it. they have said it themselves, they will pay for their promises by Raising Taxes, Taxing the Wealthy, and Taxing the Corporations. Who knows what that could do to the Economy. With the NDP in charge, It would be another Mulroney Government: Incredible amount of spending, but the Debt would double or even TRIPLE!

Thus, I will be voting Liberal, hoping that Geoff Regan, the Fisheries Minister and my MP will get back in. My vote has to count for something.

Edit: Beau: Maritimers Rule! Go New Scotland!

[Devon Lake]

And then raise the crap out of taxes, and cut funding for other crap to pay for it all, right?

Ya, it takes a pretty high tax load to pay for medicare but it's hardly something I'd begrudge. I mean, who would consider disbanding the roads or education or the police force just to cut taxes? Most Canadians feel that way about Medicare more than anything.

As for cuts to other programs; not particularly, we're heavy spenders across the board. Of course, we only blow 2% of our revenue on the military as apposed to the current 50% or so of the US. I guess we're saving plenty of money that way, but then , the army is about as high a priority to me as the Prime Minister's cocktail parties.

I am able to vote for the first time this time around, and I am guaranteed to vote for the Liberals this year. Yes they have had a few scandals, but compared to what they have done for the country in the past few years, they are pretty minor. I am a Hardcore Liberal, but that does not mean that completely support what they have done. Personally I love the party, but I am uneasy about Paul Martin. I did not like how he slimily cut Jean Chretien's feet out from under him in order to take over. I question his morals, but I recognize that he gets results.

Ya, I don't feel too badly about the Liberals either. They had a few nasty scandals, but I think that's just an inevitability of power really. They certainly faired better than the Mulruney government in that respect, but then, that's hardly saying much. I agree with your about Paul Martin to. Honestly, he seems too far to the right for my tastes: I could hardly trust a multi-billion dollar business tycoon like him in power anyway. I sort of miss Chreatien. Sure he seemed kind of seedy, but he was talking about decriminalising marijuana and recognizing gay marriages near the end; if he had been given more time in power he might have followed through.

P.S. Maratimers eh? My parents are both born and bred Newfies. I'm going there again this summer for a cousin's wedding. Great place. I ought to bring a tape recorder just so that I can listen to the accent later...

[slightly aboveaverage man]

It's not the fact that he's rich that gets me, after all, Trudeau and Chretien were both millionares, but that he would do anything for power. I was rooting for John Manley in the Liberal Leadership Race. Now that was a good prospect for Prime Minister. I also think that Martin has made some good choices for his cabinet. David Pratt is the best Defense Minister weve had since the 1970's, and Ralph Goodale brings a level of quality rarely seen in any of the portfolio's he takes over.

Defense is a high priority on my list, Canada used to be the 4th largest military in the world, but now we've degraded to second-last in NATO. I like Martin's policies of increased spending for Defense, The Military provides jobs for the civilian population, as does the building of equipment; thus the Military improves the economy.

Actually Newfoundland is not considered a part of the Maritimes. The Maritimes are just Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Prince Edward Island.

So what part of the country are you guys from? What Parties control your area?

[Devon Lake]

Defense is a high priority on my list, Canada used to be the 4th largest military in the world, but now we've degraded to second-last in NATO. I like Martin's policies of increased spending for Defense, The Military provides jobs for the civilian population, as does the building of equipment; thus the Military improves the economy.

Ya, but back in the day Canada had a reason for a military. Before the 20th Century we needed our armed forces to keep the Yanks from over running us becuase in those days the folks down South were still all uppity about the whole "Mandate Destiny" thing about conquering an empire that enveloped the entire North American Contenent. At this point, our winning a direct aussalt against the US is just unfeasible; the best we could hope for is to be a shitty enough satelite nation that America falls apart trying to administer us. Besides, the US is our biggest ally these days anyway so the whole point is moot.

Beating up fascism and communism was a worthy cause, but it's all over now. The Axis surrendered and the Soviet Union fell apart. And frankly, this nonsensical war upon something as ambiguous as terrorism isn't looking too well to me as a replacement cause. Sure, it'd be all well and good if the developed world got off it's duff to declare a "War to Finally Enforce the Universal Declarations of Human Rights" but that's not happening any time in the forseeable future.

As for the military creating jobs, that's really a moot point because any government spending is an injection into the economy (See Meynard Keynes.) You know, the entire medical system can account for as much as 25% of a nation's GDP. I'd sooner our resources and jobs be invested in thing that help us like education, medicare, and the environment rather than training a bunch of jocks to march around all day and blow crap up.

Edit: Oh, and Newfies rock anyway. I'm currently in Ontario but I'm not sure where I'll head when schools finnished. I'm staying within the country, that's for sure.

[very popular guitar chord]

It's not like Canada's military pre-20th Century was too much to sneeze about either. When *Manifest* Destiny did come around in 1812, the British showed up to help out. As far as this election goes, it's going to be close. Whoever wins, will probably win a Minority government. Then they'll likely be another election with a landslide victory for another majority government soon.

And as far as the Bloc goes, they are quite impressive for a party that dosen't run outside of Quebec. And seperatism isn't quite as dead as everyone would like to believe.

Personally? Not impressed by the Conservative bid to scrap the Kyoto Protocol in favor of its own plan (Which they've yet to name), the Liberal leadership has made me queasy for quite a while, the NDP does have the potential to do well, and Olivia Chow seemed to kill on debate on the CBC a few nights ago, so at least they look like they know what they're doing.

[edit: it's John Meynard Keynes. And who knows, the other folks on this thread may be Monetarists.]

[C-dog]

It'll be my first time voting as well. I'll be voting liberal. A few little scandals that the media has blown out of proportion aren't changing my mind. The liberals seem to have a hold on things right now. The deficit is going down under the liberals, while the NDP would spend and spend. With the deficit gone (eventually), maybe they'll be able to fund healthcare, university education, etc, WITHOUT raising taxes and cutting other services. Maybe I'll vote NDP when the nation isn't in so much debt. The Conservatives are out of the question for me. I don't like their right-wing ideals at all.

[very popular guitar chord]

:: raises an eyebrow ::
Although it IS true that the Federal Debt is a mounting problem, realistically, elminating it won't be possible for almost a generation. While we could solve it right now, economically, I find the NDP solution to be interesting. Someone's already mentioned the Keynesian solution, and if the economy undergoes another bad recession, I definitely want the NDP in office.

IF. There's another recession.

[slightly aboveaverage man]

Actually, the Liberals eliminated the Deficit in 1997, then in less than a decade, shrunk the debt by $50 billion (Compared to the Conservatives increase of 300 billion dollars to the debt.) I say go with the Tried Tested and True...

But I still wish that John Manley had won the Liberal Leadership race.