Batman Vs. Superman was the worst superhero movie ever made - Page 2

mauve · 03-27-2016, 10:43 PM

DC shoehorns Batman into everything because The Dark Knight was fairly groundbreaking for a superhero movie and it basically revitalized the genre. It revitalized Batman's popularity as well. DC's problem is that rather than attempt new ways to appeal to audiences or stay on the cutting edge, they just endlessly try to play off of Dark Knight's success. Everything is dark and gritty and vaguely nihilistic and filmed in muted colors. And Batman is there, because remember how cool Batman was in Dark Knight?

See how dark and gritty and edgy Batman vs Superman looks? Just like Dark Knight! We know we don't have a real compelling story like Dark Knight, but think how HARDCORE and edgy it is to have Supes and Bats hate each other! We don't need reasons if we have Batman!

See how edgy Suicide Squad looks? It's dark and pushing the envelope, just like Dark Knight! There's too many characters to be able to have any real focus or development for most of them, and they're all villains so it's not like we can do much here, but it's got The Joker, just like The Dark Knight!

See also: Wonder Woman movie promo picture, Aquaman redesign.

Don't get me wrong: I love Batman WHEN HE IS WELL-WRITTEN. But the Batman overload is tedious and dumb. There are other heroes, just like there are villains other than Joker (guess who still hasn't forgiven Arkham Origins?).

To DC's credit, this seems to apply mostly to their film offerings. I've heard very good things about their recent TV shows.

Aerozord · 03-28-2016, 01:42 PM

Part of their fear is probably because going from dark and gritty into the more camp silliness is what has repeatedly killed their franchises in the 80s and 90s. Which, to them, was proven right when they went back to dark and edgy Batman.

Is this a mistake? Of course it is, its a man dressing up as a bat running around fighting a clown. Marvel has been doing well because it realizes the need for a note of tongue-in-cheek comedy. You can have drama, seriousness, but the genre is based on the absurd and over the top.

WB are the only ones that dont seem to get this. X-men, Spider-man, regardless of the over all quality they do know not to take themselves too seriously.

Some of this might be my personal bias, I mean I was not a fan of the dark knight.

mauve · 03-28-2016, 02:05 PM

I'm honestly more optimistic about The Lego Batman Movie than I am about the entire Justice League series at this point.

Because the Lego Movie was actually fun.

rpgdemon · 03-28-2016, 04:03 PM

I used to not give a crap about DC at all. Superman? More like Super BLAND. Batman? More like "I wanna hit this guy with a bat, man". Then I had this weird feedback loop where Marvel led me into watching DC shows because I had just watched, like, one of their movies, and wanted more superhero goodness, and my roommates were watching Arrow, so I watched that.

Arrow had me caring about certain characters, but then I got into Young Justice via my roommates, that was the show that really got me into DC characters actually being pretty cool. It's all the sidekicks on their own team, and it's pretty awesome. Highly recommend it.

I know Snake will like it - Greg Weisman headed it up, aka the guy behind Spectacular Spiderman.

Gregness · 03-28-2016, 08:25 PM

Man, this thread is full of people who didn't come up on the DCAU, apparently.

People think Superman is boring because people keep getting it wrong on what exactly the good superman stories are. General Zod and the dark mirror bullshit? Nope. I can think of an interesting way to handle it, but it always devolves to flying around and punching each other through buildings. For me, the interesting Superman stories are the ones that discuss how Superman is a hero in spite of his power, not because of it.

Aerozord · 03-28-2016, 08:33 PM

No one is saying Superman is a bad character... ok Snake is but we are saying is THIS Superman is horrible. Kinda, I mean he's not good but its really the script thats bad. Now this version of Batman yea he's bad even in a vacuum.

Batman suffers from the Chuck Norris effect where people treat the memed version of a character as the actual reflection of him. The infalliable unbeatable Batman that is so ingrained in fandom its taken as fact. Which is still possible to do but you have to be really REALLY good to pull it off. See Batman: The Brave & The Bold

Bard The 5th LW · 03-28-2016, 09:13 PM

The DCAU is literally the only media DC puts out I've ever given a shit about maybe with the exception of Arkham Asylum/City, and I still did not care for this movie's superman even a little bit.

Token · 03-29-2016, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

On a subjective, personal level, fuck DC, always fuck DC, Marvel's always been better, I hate the Justice whatever they're called, I wish there was some DC vs. Marvel Superhero movie that I could watch where all the Marvel heroes and heroines just beat the everloving crap out of their DC counterparts, and DC fans have terrible taste in everything ever made.

Tough talk coming from a brony.

mauve · 03-29-2016, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Token

Tough talk coming from a brony.

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Seriously though some of the DC Animated Universe stuff is pretty fantastic.. I can't speak for all the new movies, but in terms of classic stuff, Batman: the Animated Series and Batman: Brave and the Bold were great, and I remember Justice League Unlimited having some really good episodes too. Currently DC's got some good shorts up on their youtube channel, showing off a variety of art styles and character reimaginings. The Deadman shorts are fun, and Animal Man, Plastic Man and even some of the DC Farm League's shorts can be legitimately funny. Not everything in the DCAU is good, but there are some really standout works there.

Aerozord · 03-29-2016, 06:48 PM

Plus DC was involved in the greatest crossover ever.

03-27-2016, 10:43 PM	#11
mauve So Dreamy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Someplace magical Posts: 6,863	DC shoehorns Batman into everything because The Dark Knight was fairly groundbreaking for a superhero movie and it basically revitalized the genre. It revitalized Batman's popularity as well. DC's problem is that rather than attempt new ways to appeal to audiences or stay on the cutting edge, they just endlessly try to play off of Dark Knight's success. Everything is dark and gritty and vaguely nihilistic and filmed in muted colors. And Batman is there, because remember how cool Batman was in Dark Knight? See how dark and gritty and edgy Batman vs Superman looks? Just like Dark Knight! We know we don't have a real compelling story like Dark Knight, but think how HARDCORE and edgy it is to have Supes and Bats hate each other! We don't need reasons if we have Batman! See how edgy Suicide Squad looks? It's dark and pushing the envelope, just like Dark Knight! There's too many characters to be able to have any real focus or development for most of them, and they're all villains so it's not like we can do much here, but it's got The Joker, just like The Dark Knight! See also: Wonder Woman movie promo picture, Aquaman redesign. Don't get me wrong: I love Batman WHEN HE IS WELL-WRITTEN. But the Batman overload is tedious and dumb. There are other heroes, just like there are villains other than Joker (guess who still hasn't forgiven Arkham Origins?). To DC's credit, this seems to apply mostly to their film offerings. I've heard very good things about their recent TV shows. __________________ Yoo Hoo! Last edited by mauve; 03-27-2016 at 10:48 PM.

03-28-2016, 01:42 PM	#12
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	Part of their fear is probably because going from dark and gritty into the more camp silliness is what has repeatedly killed their franchises in the 80s and 90s. Which, to them, was proven right when they went back to dark and edgy Batman. Is this a mistake? Of course it is, its a man dressing up as a bat running around fighting a clown. Marvel has been doing well because it realizes the need for a note of tongue-in-cheek comedy. You can have drama, seriousness, but the genre is based on the absurd and over the top. WB are the only ones that dont seem to get this. X-men, Spider-man, regardless of the over all quality they do know not to take themselves too seriously. Some of this might be my personal bias, I mean I was not a fan of the dark knight. __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."

03-28-2016, 02:05 PM	#13
mauve So Dreamy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Someplace magical Posts: 6,863	I'm honestly more optimistic about The Lego Batman Movie than I am about the entire Justice League series at this point. Because the Lego Movie was actually fun. __________________ Yoo Hoo!

03-28-2016, 04:03 PM	#14
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	I used to not give a crap about DC at all. Superman? More like Super BLAND. Batman? More like "I wanna hit this guy with a bat, man". Then I had this weird feedback loop where Marvel led me into watching DC shows because I had just watched, like, one of their movies, and wanted more superhero goodness, and my roommates were watching Arrow, so I watched that. Arrow had me caring about certain characters, but then I got into Young Justice via my roommates, that was the show that really got me into DC characters actually being pretty cool. It's all the sidekicks on their own team, and it's pretty awesome. Highly recommend it. I know Snake will like it - Greg Weisman headed it up, aka the guy behind Spectacular Spiderman. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

03-28-2016, 08:25 PM	#15
Gregness Never give up. Never give in. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,034	Man, this thread is full of people who didn't come up on the DCAU, apparently. People think Superman is boring because people keep getting it wrong on what exactly the good superman stories are. General Zod and the dark mirror bullshit? Nope. I can think of an interesting way to handle it, but it always devolves to flying around and punching each other through buildings. For me, the interesting Superman stories are the ones that discuss how Superman is a hero in spite of his power, not because of it. __________________ A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - Robert Heinlein

03-28-2016, 08:33 PM	#16
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	No one is saying Superman is a bad character... ok Snake is but we are saying is THIS Superman is horrible. Kinda, I mean he's not good but its really the script thats bad. Now this version of Batman yea he's bad even in a vacuum. Batman suffers from the Chuck Norris effect where people treat the memed version of a character as the actual reflection of him. The infalliable unbeatable Batman that is so ingrained in fandom its taken as fact. Which is still possible to do but you have to be really REALLY good to pull it off. See Batman: The Brave & The Bold __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."

03-28-2016, 09:13 PM	#17
Bard The 5th LW Feelin' Super! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,191	The DCAU is literally the only media DC puts out I've ever given a shit about maybe with the exception of Arkham Asylum/City, and I still did not care for this movie's superman even a little bit.

03-29-2016, 06:48 PM	#20
Aerozord So we are clear Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Former murder capital of the world Posts: 13,824	Plus DC was involved in the greatest crossover ever. __________________ "don't hate me for being a heterosexual white guy disparaging slacktivism, hate me for all those murders I've done."