Who would win if it were up to us?

[C-dog]

Just because Bush believes he's right doesn't mean he is. There are no WMDs in Iraq. They've given up searching. Bush was wrong about that one, no matter what he believes. There was no legitimate reason to start the war in Iraq! And have you seen the US economy? It's in shambles! The deficit is higher than ever and the dollar falls every day. And yet he was voted in again... Kinda makes me wish I lived in Canada. Oh wait.

[Vicious]

1. It wasn't just an opinion. He acted on it, and he was wrong. Having an opinion isn't the wrong part. The wrong part is the subject matter of that opinion. If someone says it's alright to grill a baby for lunch, they have a right to think that, but within the moral constrictions we as humans have set forth, it is obviously wrong.

2. George W. Bush does not have the authority to decide who lives and dies. Period. You say it has to be done, but I don't see any set rules that states mass genocide is absolutely necessary. Just because something has been done in the past doesn’t make it any less immoral. Especially when such acts are prompted by "rumors."

You have to consider it. George Bush himself solely directed an attack upon a country... They did not attack us first. It was a single-sided act of aggression on the part of the US. We invaded their country and overthrew their government. Yes, Saddam Hussein killed his citizens, but George W. Bush killing them doesn’t make it any better.


Aaaand, on top of that, he dosen't even bother to acknowledge what he did.

[Dynamite220]

Jesus people. He's a person, not a god. Seriously, even if I wasn't cutting him so much slack, I wouldn't touch Kerry with a two mile pole, much less vote him for president. I would have voted for him anyway because of his stand on taxes and on small government (we're lucky we don't get as much government as we pay for and yet we still have too much) but I did vote for him because Kerry's oppinions look suspiciously like the current public oppinion polls in the New York Times and Nadir's are rather extreeme (if you've never read the Green party's goals, then you should. Nadir didn't run for them this year, but he's run for them before so he must hold similar views). If you insist on a "lesser of two evils" race then Bush is definitely the lesser of two evils.

[My Lead Airbag]

First off, just wanted to say I voted Libertarian. I could never stand the extremists on both sides, and every election makes me realize thats all the two parties are made of.

Secondly, to all the Bush haters going on about the war, just stop. Yes, there have been a lot of American lives lost and there have been civilian casualties, but we also managed to get rid of a despotic mass murdering psycho. Now, the main arguments I see against the war are:

Where are the WMDs now huh? - True, the whole WMD thing turned into one long running Daily Show Joke, but you can't just say "Well Saddam had no WMDs at that point, he'd never get them." Thats looking at the tree as you miss the forest. Bush thought that Saddam, whether now or in the future, would have access to weapons that would pose a danger.

He did it to avenge his daddy. - Possible I guess. Not likely, but possible.

Soldiers lives and Civilians lost - Yes, we've lost a thousand or more to the war. But everyone is acting like Bush picked out the ones who would die. No one picked those guys and gals fates. There is no draft, we live in a country where you have to volunteer to fight, they knew what they were getting into. And judging from the fact that a good 90+% of the Armed Forces vote Republican might be construed as an indicator that maybe they agree with the war.
Civilian wise, I can't defend Bush beyond "War is hell."

All that isn't to say I agree with Bush fully though. I might agree the war was an ok idea, but his domestic issues are just heaping piles of shit. I'm Catholic and I'm still offended that we're close to banning gay marriage and even they're right to a civil union. He and his cronies just beef up every little thing (WMDs, Social Security, gays, etc) to the point where the message is "Believe this or you hate America".

All the Democrats really need to do is find a guy with some charisma, or at least a personality. You guys can't rest on Clinton's laurels.

[Dragonsbane]

Originally Posted by Thanatos

Military: We are all tired of seeing our citizens going dying in foreign wars, but war is an inevitability. So, how do we solve this problem. Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, and have figured out a way to kill two birds with one stone. We have another major problem, prison overcrowding. So here's what we do. We take our death row inmates and drop them on the frontlines with guns and explosives. They have already proven they have no qualms about killing people, so we put this to good use by letting them do the brunt of the fighting. If they die, oh well we wer going to kill them anyway. If they survive their sentence will be commuted to life without parole. The second wave of fighters will be the lifers. I can create military positions for every criminal out there, and if they prove themselves, their sentences can be reduced.

Fascinating...not only is this idea quite interesting, but it also reminds me of the Sardaukar troops in Frank Herbert's Dune series, elite warriors created by recruiting the toughest inhabitants of an extremely harsh prison planet. With some training, you could make a lethal batch of stormtroopers from your idea.

Originally Posted by Orkaxe

Bush.....

George Bush.....

How can anyone be proud of a president such as him? His name is like ash in my mouth.

If you have an opinion beyond just bashing Bush in an attempt to appear liberal, please state it. If not, try expanding your mental capacity enough to form an intelligent opinion...whether or not it agrees with mine, I'd rather not "duel an unarmed foe" in a debate such as this. Simply stating "Bush BAAAD" without supplying reasons, supporting arguments, or evidence is an extreme sign of ignorance.

Originally Posted by My Lead Airbag

Secondly, to all the Bush haters going on about the war, just stop. Yes, there have been a lot of American lives lost and there have been civilian casualties, but we also managed to get rid of a despotic mass murdering psycho.

This is one of the things most people seem to miss. Ask someone why war is bad, and they'll most likely tell you that it's because of the deaths involved. Saddam Hussein mass-murdered thousands of innocent men, women, and children. His sons raped 12 and 15 year old girls. We hunted Osama Bin Laden for killing thousands of our people, should Saddam be spared simply because the people he killed weren't Americans?

It seems that we have a tendency to believe that events that don't effect us, don't concern us. Are people not still people just because they dwell in another nation? Is murder not still murder when the victims aren't our citizens?

Some have said that America can't be the "world's policeman", that is it not our job to protect the lives of innocents in other countries. The answer to this is simple: If we don't, then who will? The U.N. has repeatedly shown itself to be incapable or unwilling to stop genocide, and the French government seems to have forgotten the persecution it suffered under the hands of a brutal Dictator. Would they have wished us to mind our own business back then, and leave them under the rule of Germany? If not, why would they want us to leave the Iraqis to suffer under Saddam?

Originally Posted by My Lead Airbag

Soldiers lives and Civilians lost - Yes, we've lost a thousand or more to the war. But everyone is acting like Bush picked out the ones who would die. No one picked those guys and gals fates. There is no draft, we live in a country where you have to volunteer to fight, they knew what they were getting into. And judging from the fact that a good 90+% of the Armed Forces vote Republican might be construed as an indicator that maybe they agree with the war.
Civilian wise, I can't defend Bush beyond "War is hell."

Again, that is true. The people who are fighting in Iraq volunteered to go, and yet many presume to make light of their sacrifices by using them as a weapon, a political tool to wield against Bush. It seems a grave dishonor that such bravery be debased in the hands of power-hungry politicians in order to further their own agendas.

Bush isn't perfect. Far from it. Many of his policies at home I disagree with, and some make me fervently angry at him. However, in this case he did the right thing. Think about it.

[Thanatos]

Personally, it would have been ME. Yes Thanatos future president of the world. Here are a list of just a few of my policies:

Military: We are all tired of seeing our citizens going dying in foreign wars, but war is an inevitability. So, how do we solve this problem. Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, and have figured out a way to kill two birds with one stone. We have another major problem, prison overcrowding. So here's what we do. We take our death row inmates and drop them on the frontlines with guns and explosives. They have already proven they have no qualms about killing people, so we put this to good use by letting them do the brunt of the fighting. If they die, oh well we wer going to kill them anyway. If they survive their sentence will be commuted to life without parole. The second wave of fighters will be the lifers. I can create military positions for every criminal out there, and if they prove themselves, their sentences can be reduced.

Economy: The problem with the economy is simple, we keep buying stuff that we don't have the money to pay for. Money is based on nothing, except faith that the government will back whatever is the value on the paper. But when our government keeps getting further and further in debt, people have less and less faith, meaning the value of the dollar drops. How do we solve this? Get rid of money. Switch our economy back to a barter trade system.

Education: With the aforementioned change in the economy, teachers will finally be paid what they deserve. In exchange for educating your child, you give the teacher whatever your skills allow (cooking, cleaning, build a house, grow food.) Teachers will live just as well as doctors, because people from every industry will use their services. Goods and services used to trade for education, will be collected by the government a divided among the educators, so that each teacher recieves the same goods and services as others of his/her ability. The better the quality of a teachers instruction the better the quality and quanity of goods and services.

[AerodynamicHair]

My support would have to go to Nader. I just generally love the guy, and he's the only "politician" I really feel isn't trying to screw me over so he could get his own. It's about time the US had a consumer advocate for a president, instead of rich-boy ceo.

About Bush, I disagree with him, but I understand that other people really beleive in what he's doing. It's not that I think that Bush is evil, or that he's stupid, its just that I don't believe in his positions, and I don't like what he's doing and what he's done. Neither do I like Kerry. I wish the democrats would get back on the ball and stop this whole "we may not have the best guy for the job, but he sure isn't Bush!" crap. The democrats don't even try anymore, in my opinion.

[Dragonsbane]

Personally, I hated all three of them; Bush, Kerry, AND Nader. If it was up to me, and be grateful it isn't, I would put all three of them into an arena with weapons, and force them to fight to the death for my amusement.

The winner would then have the privelege of leading the charge in the next attack in Iraq.

[neyo the king]

Black Mage for President! Seriously, I think it would have been best for the US is anyone but Bush was president.

[C-dog]

Just because Bush believes he's right doesn't mean he is. There are no WMDs in Iraq. They've given up searching. Bush was wrong about that one, no matter what he believes. There was no legitimate reason to start the war in Iraq! And have you seen the US economy? It's in shambles! The deficit is higher than ever and the dollar falls every day. And yet he was voted in again... Kinda makes me wish I lived in Canada. Oh wait.

Actually, although I think if Bush had lost, it would have been better for the world in general, Bush has been not too bad for Canada. With the American dollar falling, the Canadian dollar is worth a lot more in the US, which has been great for our economy.

Anyway, if I were American I would have voted for Kerry. There should really be a poll to go along with this thread.