A conversation about conversations about bigotry

[Overcast]

I do wish I'd been able to post in that thread. The comedic approach to troubling topics, the comedic attempt to challenge racial stereotypes without reinforcing them, the variables between shock comedy and therapeutic release of personal trouble with hazardous subject matter and the ultimate question of if a person is allowed to shed light on a topic if they are not intrinsically tied to it are things I've thought hard on for a long time.

[pochercoaster]

This is already way off topic but here goes. On humour. Here is an excerpt.

1) Theoretically, there is no subject that should be considered off-limits for humor.

2) There will always be some example where a performer of extremely high skill can take something very painful and make it work. [Note: I consider Wanda Sykes an example of this. Carlin and Louis, however, did not make it work.]

But...

Here's what YOU need to understand:

1) Rape is way, WAY more prevalent than you seem to think it is. Are there more than five women in your audience? You do the math, and then you run the little fantasy scenario that I just put together in your head, and you tell me how it feels.

2) I ain't buying any of that "If I can make jokes about genocide, why can't I make jokes about rape?" Horseshit, unless you made those genocide jokes during a gig at the Srebrenica Funny Bone. You got away with making a joke about genocide because your odds of having a holocaust survivor's kid in the audience were pretty fucking low.

And if you did happen to have one in the audience, and he heckled you, walked out, and wrote something nasty on the internet... would you be more likely to be a human being and say "Wow. I can understand why that person's authentic response to what I was doing was so emotional and negative. Maybe my genocide material just isn't good enough to justify the pain that it inflicts. Maybe I need more skill in order to pull this off." Or are you gonna be a lousy piece of shit and say, "Yeah, I apologize, I guess, IF YOU WERE OFFENDED."

Offended hasn't got anything to do with it, moron.

People have wounds, and those wounds are painful. That doesn't have shit to do with the weak concept of "taking offense." If someone talks about Texas being a shitty state, I might "take offense" at that. Fine, whatever. All of us who like comedy are generally in agreement with the idea that "taking offense" is lame, and a comedian should be willing to "offend" whenever he or she wants to.

But causing pain is quite a different fucking matter. Your job as a comedian is to take us through pain, transcend pain, transform pain. And if you don't get that, you are a fucking bully, and I've got zero time for bullies.

People have been shitting on oppressed groups forever. Shitting on them through comedy, and a comedian going "amirite" through shitting on them is not edgy. It's the norm. It's the status quo. And it's horrible.

Edgy is pointing out oppression. Edgy is pointing out privilege. Edgy is enlightening. Edgy is educational. Edgy is anti-ignorance. Edgy is asking important questions.

By the way, I didn't read any of the thread, just watched the two videos of rape jokes by Carlin and Louis and decided that was enough.

[Nique]

But Pocheros, isn't asking a comedian to not say something offensive actually the worst kind of oppression?

[Overcast]

Not really, it is a request at best in this country.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by POS Industries

Yeah, I don't think "let's make threads terrible so they'll reach the terrible conclusion I expect of them and get locked more quickly" is a particularly good philosophy as opposed to "let's just try not to make threads terrible."

Though I guess if you're committed to that goal it's good that you've stood up and declared it openly so that we know who to eventually remove when threads keep going downhill, what with trolling being against the rules and all.

Like I said, I wasn't actually committed to that goal but I kind of wish I had been, it would make things make more sense. Like I started this good natured Grammar Nazi thread and everyone somehow ruined it with their misanthropy! When we can't even have fun making fun of bad grammar or whatever it's pretty telling. At least with a topic with rape jokes in it it makes (somewhat) more sense. Though ironically everyone was more civil in that one than on much less serous topics, so...man I don't even know.

[TDK]

Originally Posted by pocheros

^

Related: Liz is a pretty big asshole pretty much all of the time, he's a perfect example of an overzealous white knight. It is not the responsibility or obligation of anyone to try and force people to change their views which may or may not be wrong (they are called opinions for a reason) for the active betterment of society, even if it would be great if everyone actively worked to make society better. In fact, its pretty bigoted to be a huge dick to someone just because of their views. There's an old addage that says two wrongs don't make a right, maybe we should take that to heart.

I think my main reason for saying Liz is an asshole is that I feel like he really, genuinely never considers the idea that he is wrong. Also because he is overly caustic with anyone he has the slightest disagreement with. Like, jesus christ have you heard of the idea of tact? You don't need to be all calling people overprivileged biggoted assclowns when they suggest that hey maybe islam is not very healthy for a society* or whatever people are arguing about this week.

*I guess this is what the draw muhammed day thing was about? I didn't read that thread. But its not relevant to my point.



Also, I feel pretty oppressed when Liz and people like him refer to white males and talk about privilege and whatever, like its every individual person's fault that people are oppressed and stuff. White males don't oppress people. Assholes oppress people.

But none of this is really relevant to the current topic, I just missed the part of the conversation where people were pointing out why they think Liz is a dick.

[pochercoaster]

TDK, my gif was not directed at Liz. But I guess that's not surprising since I didn't accompany it with text and you'd have to go back a few pages to find my posts and opinion on the matter.

You don't need to be all calling people overprivileged biggoted assclowns when they suggest that hey maybe islam is not very healthy for a society* or whatever people are arguing about this week.

This is bigotry. You are bigoted.

[Magus]

I honestly can't believe people bitch this much about Liz. Hey, people, guess what? She's one person. If you disagree with her just go ahead and disagree with her. If she is caustic to you ignore her. You'll save yourselves a lot of trouble.

Like honestly if she is overzealously trying to convince you of something and you dislike it it's pointless to then try and overzealously convince her back or whatever.

Also like seriously she is banned right now, right? If you were banned would you like people talking a bunch of shit about you, however (supposedly) deserved?

[TDK]

Man people talked all kinds of shit about me every time I was banned, you don't know, you're one of the privileged unbanned oppressors.

Of course, I deserved it since every time I was banned I was being a twat (also I was like twelve years old on average). Much like in this case!

[Magus]

Hmm, really? I thought everyone got banned once, even if just jokingly.