Bastard Politician Mafia

[Stress Ball]

Originally Posted by Moogle0119

Well the only part of the media that we could verify its accuracy is actually Stephen Colbert. If we let the rest of the media investigate Tendronai tonight and see what they come up with we can verify more than just one media member's accuracy.

That can be done just as easily by having them investigate you, Victus, or Zilla. Trying to lynch B_real for wanting to destroy one of the cults doesn't seem very proper.

[Moogle0119]

I think it's more about B_real making up the Illuminati's win requirements and his motives as to why rather than wanting to destroy one of the cults. Unless he has information the rest of us haven't received, it makes him seem like he could be the cult leader for one of the other cults.

And I'm more for trying to prove that at least some of the investigated people are innocent because....well....I'm one of them and I'd like to prove that at least some of the media aren't reliable sources of information rather than having to kill each of us off one at a time to figure it out. Because tomorrow there will be a whole new list of people with alignments attached to them and we'll have to do it all over again. I'd rather impeach B_real or Victus, both for spouting false information regardless whether it was intentional or not.

[Stress Ball]

We won't need to kill them one at a time. If we kill one person and they don't happen to be the alignment that the media claimed, than we can deduce that the rest of the media also lies, and that the others accused should be treated as innocent. If they do come up as that alignment, then we can wait until morning and see what the media brings up then. We don't need to lynch someone today, but if we do, it should be one of the accused, for the purpose of finding out more information on the media.

[P-Sleazy]

Originally Posted by Moogle0119

I think it's more about B_real making up the Illuminati's win requirements and his motives as to why rather than wanting to destroy one of the cults. Unless he has information the rest of us haven't received, it makes him seem like he could be the cult leader for one of the other cults.

Well, I certainly don't see you putting up any theories about how each of the groups are to win. So of course I'm making it up if I don't know it. Anything thats not known is made up. Its how theories are made. As for me being a party leader for a party, I point you to my previous post

Originally Posted by B_Real

if I were a political party leader, I don't think I'd be sticking my neck out so far and bringing so much attention to myself. Risking something like this so early in the game would not be the brightest of moves, were I to be a party leader.

As for why the Illuminati are worse than the other three, if my previously stated suspicions about the illuminati are true (their goal is to become a member of each organization and they never truely convert to any party and remain as thier group alignment but feign that they are a part of that group) then it means that their organization won't be inducting members into thier fold, but they won't be losing any either. Whilst the other three will constantly be trading members, and even re-culting some people if they suspect they were converted to another party, making them fight amonst eachother for members. Hence, not too worried about the other three parties right now when they each have 2 members max, whilst the illuminati already has several, probably 5 (one for each political party, one in the media, and one as thier leader).

[Zilla]

^ There's nothing to indicate the Illuminati operates any differently in game mechanics, and absolutely nothing that suggests they already have 5 members.

Your argument that "I wouldn't do this as a political leader" is blatant WIFOM (Sorry Apes, but this is EXACTLY what WIFOM is). You could have "stuck your neck out" because it's something you think a political leader wouldn't do, so that's why you did it. There's no weight to the argument, especially from you, that a political leader wouldn't call attention to himself, because if that's what you think, that's all the more reason for you do it as a political leader.

As to Rhiya's allegations that I don't want Tendronai cleared because it would somehow implicate me, that's not true. I was originally in support of Tendronai being lynched until I picked up on B_Real. The alternative proposed by B-HS makes sense and is more reliable than lynching Tendronai. It's also that I don't believe Tendronai is actually Illuminati because the report on me is false, so I don't think lynching Tendronai on a false media claim is going to be as beneficial as lynching B_Real on a potential slip-up and letting the media cross-reference their work tomorrow.

Actually, we should specify right now who is researching whom so that they don't all end up investigating the same person, though that would be informative as well if they gave conflicting reports.

I suggest we just shift the list down one. i.e. Hannity investigates Tendy, Colbert investigates Zilla, Coulter investigates Victus, Olbermann investigates Moogle.

We could also have everyone investigate one person and see if they offer conflicting reports, and that may be more informative as far as that one person goes.

[Ape Boy]

No problem, Zilla. You can use them, just don't abuse the damn things.

[Moogle0119]

I'm fine with the above method as well even. That's exactly what I was going to say though, is B_real is working on a lot of "what ifs" and "theories" and we all know how well his last theory on the Illuminati's win conditions turned out....

As I said in my last post unless there's something B_real knows that has not been made public knowledge he's just blowing a lot of steam around and trying to make it seem valid and true instead of going with the supporting evidence which doesn't sit well with me.

Also according to Stress Ball's reasoning...

Originally Posted by Stress Ball

We won't need to kill them one at a time. If we kill one person and they don't happen to be the alignment that the media claimed, than we can deduce that the rest of the media also lies, and that the others accused should be treated as innocent. If they do come up as that alignment, then we can wait until morning and see what the media brings up then.

Doesn't seem like such a good idea. You're basically letting one of the investigated people die to prove or disprove a theory and then going off of that you'll determine whether the other 3 media members are truthful or not? For all we know, one of the media could be telling the truth while the other 3 don't. Determining whether this is true or not off of one lynch isn't the way to do it though because there's no guarantee the others will follow suit. Not to mention I'd rather not impeach Tendronai because it sets a bad precedent for the rest of the investigated people by someone saying tomorrow "Oh gee, well Tendronai was innocent, but the other 3 could have been true" and then we'll all get lynched one by one to determine the media's effectiveness in providing accurate investigations. At least with one of the other methods suggested we can get a reading on all 4 media members and not let the cults gain additional days to recruit people.

[Stress Ball]

Lynching Tendronai would have no impact for our plan of action during the night. All the media has to do is target a single member who does not happen to be Tendronai. If we lynch Tendronai and he turns out to be innocent, then we prove that all of the media input is slanted, rather than just one. Rather than call your innocence into question, it would instead disqualify people's guilt based on those standards. However, for right now, I will do this.

Unvote: Tendronai

Vote: No Impeachment

As I said before, we don't have to impeach anyone. We could just as easily wait until the media has done their thing at night before taking action. If we lynch B_real right now, no matter what his alignment is, we will end up provoking arguments tomorrow that will be based around who was pushing/not pushing to get B_real lynched. This will only serve to confuse things more, especially if it turns out that the media has inaccurate deduction powers.

[Zilla]

Stress Ball is guaranteed inducted, if B_Real comes up aligned, I think he's in league with him.

We have no other method to combat the parties other than impeachment, and it's already going to be hard enough to get a majority as it is, with most of the masses unconverted. In this case, "No-Lynch" is even more counterproductive than usual. Also. This:

If we lynch B_real right now, no matter what his alignment is, we will end up provoking arguments tomorrow that will be based around who was pushing/not pushing to get B_real lynched.

AS IF THIS WAS A BAD THING? That's how town wins at mafia. This is blatant paranoia that when B_Real comes up party aligned, Stress Ball will be questioned for not pushing him.

I'm also beginning to wonder if Stress Ball isn't the leader, and converted B Real because I said B_Real couldn't look scummy if he tried on Day 1. To be honest, B_Real is a very appetizing convert target considering his experience with mafia, and with Stress Ball's new nature, he would look to someone with experience for a convert.

I'm fine with either B_Real or Stress Ball at this point, and as it stands, B_Real is the path of least resistance and has the most direct evidence against him.

Also, to elaborate a bit, it's not whether B_Real is right or wrong about his conspiracy theories, it's about the implications of even suggesting those theories.
1) He suggests the Illuminati function differently from the other parties, with no basis. This assumes he has inside knowledge of how parties work.
2) He suggests the Illuminati's goal is the elimination of opposing political parties, and their means do not harm the masses but instead the other parties. This makes the Illuminati seem the least threatening of the political parties.
3) He further motions to take action against a potential member of the Illuminati based on the idea that they will win before town, by harming the other parties. Again, his viewpoint is in defense of the other parties, not the masses.
4) He presumes the Illuminati already have a broad member base, based on no evidence. There's nothing inehrently malevolent about this speculation, but it has no merit, and he backs it up by supposing that they cannot induct new members, MAKING THEM EVEN LESS HARMFUL TO TOWN.

In conclusion, B_Real's argument has been in defense of the political parties against possible Illuminati threat, not in defense of town.

Stress_Ball seems like a lackey, blatantly so. His stance hardly even tries to conceal that he's defending B_Real. FOS: Stress Ball

[Captain Combustible]

Unvote: Tendronai, Vote: B_real

Having the Media members investigate each other's targets does sound like the best plan for determining accuracy. I also have to agree with Zilla, I think it's way too early for B_real's theorys about the way the cults work make sense.

Originally Posted by Stress Ball

We won't need to kill them one at a time. If we kill one person and they don't happen to be the alignment that the media claimed, than we can deduce that the rest of the media also lies, and that the others accused should be treated as innocent.

So your argument is essentially one investigation being innacurate = all investigations are innacurate = all people investigated must be town.

Originally Posted by Stress Ball

As I said before, we don't have to impeach anyone. We could just as easily wait until the media has done their thing at night before taking action. If we lynch B_real right now, no matter what his alignment is, we will end up provoking arguments tomorrow that will be based around who was pushing/not pushing to get B_real lynched. This will only serve to confuse things more, especially if it turns out that the media has inaccurate deduction powers.

If by confuse things more you mean gives us actual evidence about who we should lynch. More importantly you really want to give the cults a free night? Really?

The nly explanation I can see for stressballs rediculous arguments is that he doesn't like the way the lynch is going on B_real which makes me think he's probably not a cult leader, but rather a inductee trying to save his leader.