We are heading towards an Idiocracy!

[pochercoaster]

Jill Stein wants to impose a moratorium on GMOs. As someone whose job requires me to be somewhat educated on GMOs, I wonder how she proposes we do that given that basically our entire food supply has GMOs in it. We would have no food left. Organic food (which has to be GMO-free to be certified organic) simply is not produced in a large enough quantity to feed the american populace. If we just unequivocally banned GMOs, supermarket shelves would be utterly bare.

There are some issues with some GMO food in that it encourages agricultural practices that are bad for the environment and there are less destructive alternatives, but you can't just ban GMO food without starving the majority of americans. And probably fucking the economy. It would never pass in congress but yeah. Unfortunately improving our food supply is done through grueling, tedious work over the long term.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by pochercoaster

Jill Stein wants to impose a moratorium on GMOs. As someone whose job requires me to be somewhat educated on GMOs, I wonder how she proposes we do that given that basically our entire food supply has GMOs in it. We would have no food left. Organic food (which has to be GMO-free to be certified organic) simply is not produced in a large enough quantity to feed the american populace. If we just unequivocally banned GMOs, supermarket shelves would be utterly bare.

There are some issues with some GMO food in that it encourages agricultural practices that are bad for the environment and there are less destructive alternatives, but you can't just ban GMO food without starving the majority of americans. And probably fucking the economy. It would never pass in congress but yeah. Unfortunately improving our food supply is done through grueling, tedious work over the long term.

What really saddens me is this is an argument I never even make because I know the fact they are anti-GMO means they are ignorant of the impact. Atleast with nuclear energy I have raw math to use, not that it helps.

But yea the Green Party has no understanding of economy, or they are ok with complete economic collapse and screwing over all but the wealthiest people for the sake of environmentalism.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

But yea the Green Party has no understanding of economy, or they are ok with complete economic collapse and screwing over all but the wealthiest people for the sake of environmentalism.

There's no correlation in my mind between the organic movement with food products and genuine environmentalism, in my opinion. I'm all for screwing people over for the sake of environmental progress -- really, given the massive scope of global climate change I'm sort of ethically obligated to take that sort of stance, or else our descendants will be collectively screwed (I mean, they already are pretty screwed, they'll just be even more screwed if we do nothing) -- but I'd much rather focus on clean energy solutions than trying to dictate food consumption habits to preemptively free individuals.

[Aerozord]

Salient point, good or bad if someone prefers cheap over organic they are completely free to consume it and vice versa. Its silly to talk about banning GMOs when proven unhealthy things like tobacco are freely consumed.

I do agree with energy solutions which is why I am so heavily pro-nuclear. It is the only viable alternative to fossil fuels. Solar panels just aren't that efficient. Some day, sure, but we need a solution for the next 20 years not the next 100.

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by shiney

Her voting record absolutely supports this. She has been considerably misrepresented too, but much of that is her own doing as she can't seem to stop getting involved in stupid scandals of her own making. Of course, many of the things she's been attacked for are absolutely not her fault, but things like the email server were foolish mistakes and there have been enough of them to create this cloud of uncertainty around her.

Look, I think Trump would be an awful president, but Hillary shouldn't be let off the hook for all her bullshit with 'oh, it's just a foolish mistake'. She set up that email server almost entirely to avoid Freedom of Information Act requests; taking greater precautions with her own personal business than with actual classified information. She's lied repeatedly about things so pointless to lie about it defies understanding. 'Bosnian sniper fire' anyone? Hell, she was on TV just a few days ago saying that the FBI director said she was telling the truth about her email business, which Politifact gave her a 'pants-on-fire' for. One wonders if it's reflex for her.

All this isn't even getting into issues with the election, and how the DNC leak confirms that they had their thumb on the scale from the beginning (though people have been saying as much from the start, this confirms it). At the risk of delving too far into tinfoil hat territory, Tim Kaine was formerly the chair of the DNC, and upon stepping down he nominated Debbie Wasserman-Schultz (Who was the co-chair of Clinton's '08 run) as his replacement. Fast forward to '16, where we find that DWS has been pulling for Hillary the whole time, if not actively rigging things in her favor, and when Hillary wins the nomination, who ends up being her running mate but Tim Kaine.

This is not 'stupid scandals' and 'foolish mistakes'. She's fucking slimy, and it says something about this election, and our politics in general, that she's still better than Trump.

Consider, that republicans seem to hate Obama nearly as much as they do Hillary, but Hillary is the one they keep dragging through the mud. This is because unlike Hillary, Obama doesn't seem to have any skeletons in his closet. If he did, we likely would have seen them by now.

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Hillary could win the support of the majority of centrists, progressives and even establishment Republicans and still lose if there's no enthusiasm among those groups and the White Supremacist Pseudo-Fascist Trump-Loving Shitlords are excited and show up in hordes. If there's one thing Donald Trump has unequivocally proven it's that bigoted dipshits still exist in this country in alarming numbers, and need only the scent of one of their own in the media to emerge from hibernation.

Dismissing Trump supporters as 'bigoted dipshits' is dangerous, as it risks failing to understand why he's doing as well as he is, and thus not understanding how to stop it. I won't claim to have the answer to that, but this article came up on the Facebook feed of a friend of mine with a useful perspective on it.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by Gregness

Dismissing Trump supporters as 'bigoted dipshits' is dangerous, as it risks failing to understand why he's doing as well as he is, and thus not understanding how to stop it.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that Trump has merely exposed America's soft underbelly of uneducated white racist bigoted dipshits for what it's always been, only the Republican Wall Street Ivy League-educated wealthy dipshits sufficiently obscured their existence from other privileged whites (who, through our privilege, have been insulated from the neverending pervasiveness of racism in this country) up til now by pretending there were deeper philosophical or economic arguments to support their bullshittery.

Trump gets points in my book only for being brutally honest where most Republicans would have the combination of intelligence and the desire to be liked (the need to at least be perceived as ethical) to sweep all this under the rug.

Any white person in this country who feels disenfranchised -- including me! I'm struggling right now! -- is still so blessed by virtue of being white in this country that they have no moral standing to bitch and moan about anyone else presumably ruining America for them. Any white person who attempts such arguments, particularly white heterosexual men, should be dismissed immediately and mocked relentlessly. That is particularly true if they genuinely believe that Donald Trump -- he who daily insults women, Muslims, Hispanics, the disabled, military families, crying babies, firefighters, municipalities, even other members of his own idiotic political party -- is somehow the answer to their ordeal. I'm sick and tired of wearing kiddy gloves. These people deserve to be humiliated. Paul Ryan and John McCain should feel awful. All these dumb Trump supporters should walk around with Scarlet goddamn letters. They're a disgrace and an embarrassment to this country and humanity, a walking scourge of intellectual depravity, immune and oblivious to facts and knowledge, seeking instead the instrumentalities of their own destruction.

Liberals should stop indulging our propensity to give in to compassion and pity and seek excuses because that just gives Fox News and every conservative commentator the upper hand because they're willing to play dirty while we seek some moral high ground. Fuck the high ground. Burn Donald J. Trump and everything he stands for to the ground.

[Gregness]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Liberals should stop indulging our propensity to give in to compassion and pity and seek excuses because that just gives Fox News and every conservative commentator the upper hand because they're willing to play dirty while we seek some moral high ground. Fuck the high ground. Burn Donald J. Trump and everything he stands for to the ground.

Don't think of it as giving compassion or seeking excuses, think of it like Sun Tzu telling you to know your enemy. Dismissing your opponent as dumb brutes, bigoted dipshits, or whatever else is a fast track to letting them outmaneuver you.

[rpgdemon]

Regarding the DNC email leaks, I personally am giving them absolutely zero thought: These emails were allegedly hacked and leaked by Russia to help Trump in the election. Why would you form your opinions based on something shown to you only to harm you and give Trump a leg up?

[Overcast]

Not that I am much of a guy to claim a dog in this race, but you let that influence you because it is informative. Whatever its purpose was is subject to opinion and will be modified by rhetoric, but its content is raw information. Even if you plan to support the Dems either way, it is worth knowing what the content of these emails is to remain informed on the actions of your party so that you can take a more directed approach to things you may find flawed in it after the fight is over.

[rpgdemon]

Originally Posted by Overcast

Not that I am much of a guy to claim a dog in this race, but you let that influence you because it is informative . Whatever its purpose was is subject to opinion and will be modified by rhetoric, but its content is raw information. Even if you plan to support the Dems either way, it is worth knowing what the content of these emails is to remain informed on the actions of your party so that you can take a more directed approach to things you may find flawed in it after the fight is over.

Actually, the files have proof of modification, so the idea that they're raw information is incorrect. What the extent of that modification is, who can say.

It's propaganda, masquerading as a leak of raw information. You shouldn't let it have any bearing on how you vote, because those exact modified files were leaked specifically because of how they will impact your vote.

In poker, if someone shows you a card from their hand while you are betting, it's a fool's errand to try to use that information to decide if you should bet or fold. You were given an imperfect idea of what their hand is, and they do not have your best interest in mind. In fact, they specifically want you to try to use that information, and then draw the wrong conclusion from it.

Same deal here - The information has been modified to some unknown extent, and is being leaked specifically to influence the vote. Don't use it for that purpose.

Use it to demand change within the DNC, sure. Use it to point out how corrupt our primaries are, and demand change to how we run our elections. But don't use it to influence your vote, because it was information specifically crafted to harm your decision making abilities, when you get into the voting booth.